Site C

[Mr_Mrs_Wolf]

Oh Alfred2, the only one who seems to be ascared and afraid (that was intentional) of solar is you and other Luddites. You continually prop up Site C as if it's the god send to BC enegery woes. Its a white elephant. It's a past century technology that the Luddites are all to eager to give the eye roll to those who think outside the dam box. So save your prognosticating prognosis of solar for the low information folk you spin these solar yarns for because I am not buying what you are trying to sell.

THIS->California’s solar electricity production creates wholesale price near zero. bchydro estimates SiteC electricity to be $83-$110/MWh

Let that sink in

yOU DO UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE NOT IN CALIFORNIA.Solar will have its day , but not for 20 t0 30 tears hence, we did site c , so stop trying to scare people.

[PDT]

There's no doubt that Site C is going to cost British Columbians. Not only are we responsible for the cost of building this dam, we will end up having to sell our excess power at "the going rate", which will undoubtedly be lower than our costs. This project screws over the people of BC.

[alfred2]

site c is needed, you people are all going to be dead before solar could do the job you dream about. It will be at least 50 years before solar can be counted on to supply enough electricity to us.

[Urban Cowboy]

There's no doubt that Site C is going to cost British Columbians. Not only are we responsible for the cost of building this dam, we will end up having to sell our excess power at "the going rate", which will undoubtedly be lower than our costs. This project screws over the people of BC.

Yes it will, if you buy into the NDP lovers narrative, which as has been proven numerous times now, is based on fantasy, and incorrect comparisons to jurisdictions in a solar friendly locale.

Leaving out the costs of subsidies given to solar, in places like California, suits the NDP end game, but unfortunately is not even close to the magical solution they portray it to be.

I'll take a dam thank you very much, before I multiply my power costs by about eight times what they are now, just so some looney tunes can pretend they are off the grid.

For people who pretend to care about the environment, I find it more than a tad hypocritical to be forcing so much more plastic use onto the planet, as if there isn't enough already. Then to top it off pretend that solar doesn't have a carbon footprint, as if all the materials used to produce solar panels magically mine themselves.

I've seen a lot of valid information posted supporting why Site "C" is a good idea, but not much valid info to support solar in BC, at the level necessary to replace Site "C" output.

We've also asked numerous times now for someone on the "no" side to provide the name of a jurisdiction where wind or solar power are used and not heavily subsidized. It would appear most of the NDP tooters can't grasp that subsidization is an expense, the cost of which needs to be added to the other elements associated with solar power production.

[hobbyguy]

NDP tooter Wolf and other NDP tooters:

Please post a link to a windy-solar grid jurisdiction that has reliable, abundant, affordable electricity without subsidies.

You can't. Because it is you that are espousing a Luddite position. You don't like site C because it obviates the need for your ideologically based nonsense solution looking for problem.

Put up or shut up time!

[Smurf]

Sorry Hobbyguy but they can't do it because it does not exist. Also they are more interested in dreams than actual facts. Who cares if something works or not as long as it makes you feel good.

The proof you are asking for is non existent.

[erinmore3775]

Over the next few months as both the Liberals and the NDP attempt to form a provincial government with the support of the Green Party the future of Site C may hang in the balance. I sincerely hope that both Site C supporters and detractors examine carefully the future electrical sustainability and its related economic effects over the next 25 to 50 years for BC. It has been shown in Europe as well as North American that electrical energy usage cannot accurately be predicted. The only accurate prediction is that western civilization will use cleaner electrical energy in the future. The conversion to EV transportation and electrical fuelled industry and commerce will only mean that we will use more electrical energy.

Germany and Australia have shown that generation of this energy must be based on both synchronous and non-synchronous production sources. BC is in the unique position that over 90% of its electrical energy is currently produced by clean, green, renewable hydroelectric production. This allows the possibility of not only the development of Site C but non-synchronous producers like solar and wind to meet not future BC electrical consumption but for export to other North American electrical users through the integrated electrical grid system. Germany has shown that electrical exports can reduce the costs to peak use consumers.

I would hope that those making the Site C decision and those commenting on the appropriateness of Site C would carefully examine the information of the internet sites below.


https://www.energy-charts.de/energy.htm Imports/Exports of electricity Germany

https://www.energy-charts.de/energy.htm Monthly Electrical Generation All Sources

http://www.sma.de/en/company/pv-electricity-produced-in-germany.html PV graphic that shows how PV electrical generation helps keep peak demand prices “low.”

The Renewable Energy Surcharge is 24% of the electrical costs billed to the German Consumer. The current price of electricity in Germany is about $0.44/ kWh.
https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factshe ... -pay-power

Germany and southern Australia should be used as the comparative models, not Texas, California, or Arizona. The import/export charts indicate that solar power generated during the daytime period of between 10AM and 3PM, provide significant revenue for the German electrical system. The generation graphs indicate clearly, how little solar energy is produced during the winter months (November through February) while wind generation remains fairly constant throughout the year.

In Germany, industrial and commercial electrical power users are billed on time of use rates, as are most other parts of the EU. Solar generation, between 10 AM and 3 PM, helps reduce the cost to these users as well as allowing Germany to export surplus power to its surrounding neighbours. However, it is important to note that after 3 PM, Germany must rely heavily on synchronous power generation to allow citizens to cook their dinners, wash their clothes, heat their homes, and recharge the electric vehicles.

Solar power in Germany was promoted largely to reduce their carbon footprint. The reference to German electrical costs clearly shows that the basic charge for electricity is $0.44 (CDN) /kWh. A significant amount of this charge is made up of surcharges related to the support of renewable rebates. This is about 25% of the cost. Residential solar in Germany has only been successful because of rebates to home homeowners. “While the state, directly and indirectly, sets more than half of the price, it only receives revenues from the two taxes and the concession levy. The other levies go to grid operators, renewable power producers and some conventional power generators.”

I hope that Site C goes forward. I also hope that the “new” provincial government ceases to syphon off funds from BC Hydro to balance the budget. I hope that the new government encourages BC Hydro to use those funds to develop solar and wind power projects (that are not IPP’s). I would also hope that those involved in developing B C’s electrical future put ideology aside and base their plans on facts and predictions that are based on information related to B C’s latitude and topography.

In a total aside, for those who are interested, Canadian Tire has their crystalline solar panel with a 7-amp controller on sale for 60% off at $98.99. Perhaps 30 panels, 5 deep cycle storage batteries, a large inverter, and some extension cords should make for a quick solar home conversion. Of course, this conversion would only work if you had a gas stove and furnace and an outdoor clothes line.

[maryjane48]

try sticking to facts techie . facts are the 5 million plus homes in cali that have solar were paid by the owners . if your talking about companies that make solar tech so what . we just saw carrier get subsady bribe to stay in states . and the oil n gas in canada and states gets govt money . your point is moot .

[maryjane48]

why you only worried about 20 to 30 years ? the long game is what we need to address with short term switching to get away from being a slave to a utility . canada can flounder like a beached fish all it wants but people like musk and others wil bring the change and canada will lose out on money for inovation . its coming and you cant stop it .

[bob vernon]

Warning!!! Warning!!!

If the coalition of NDP and Green decides to close down Site C, the provincial government can expect to get their backsides sued off. Does anyone remember the ill-fated BC Rail Dease Lake extension mess of the early 1980s? That project was tendered and underway, just like Site C, and was suddenly shut down. The contractors took the BC government to court and won a huge settlement. One of the contractors used his cash to buy huge chunks of land in the northeast and bought up all the hotels in Fort Nelson and had tons of cash left over. Wanna do this all over again?

You can be sure that Christy was smart enough to make the contracts for Site C iron-clad and with lots of penalties for breaking the contracts with huge penalties to be paid to "brokers" of the deal. So go ahead Greenies and NDP, break the deal, but remember somebody will laugh all the way to the bank with millions. And we'll all pay for it.

It doesn't matter if Site C is right or wrong, the old style BC politics of the rich getting their cash regardless will prevail.

[maryjane48]

Warning!!! Warning!!!

If the coalition of NDP and Green decides to close down Site C, the provincial government can expect to get their backsides sued off. Does anyone remember the ill-fated BC Rail Dease Lake extension mess of the early 1980s? That project was tendered and underway, just like Site C, and was suddenly shut down. The contractors took the BC government to court and won a huge settlement. One of the contractors used his cash to buy huge chunks of land in the northeast and bought up all the hotels in Fort Nelson and had tons of cash left over. Wanna do this all over again?

You can be sure that Christy was smart enough to make the contracts for Site C iron-clad and with lots of penalties for breaking the contracts with huge penalties to be paid to "brokers" of the deal. So go ahead Greenies and NDP, break the deal, but remember somebody will laugh all the way to the bank with millions. And we'll all pay for it.

It doesn't matter if Site C is right or wrong, the old style BC politics of the rich getting their cash regardless will prevail.

it doesnt have to . building site c will cost more than any contract buy outs . 40 million plus a year to move fish by truck burning carbon. times 100 plus years equals 4 billion that could have went to educatiin job creation and healthcare .

[Smurf]

But at least site C will pay for itself. I do not believe that BC Hydro has ever built a dam that lost money and for that matter they have kept our power costs amongst the lowest in the world. Canceling site C would just be a complete loss of all money spent.

Are you actually saying you approve the BC government going to court costing us a fortune to fight cases that should never exist.

[maryjane48]

But at least site C will pay for itself. I do not believe that BC Hydro has ever built a dam that lost money and for that matter they have kept our power costs amongst the lowest in the world. Canceling site C would just be a complete loss of all money spent.

Are you actually saying you approve the BC government going to court costing us a fortune to fight cases that should never exist.

the reckoning is coming and once we get off the carbon and building dams the price will low every where . like i said parts of california see the utilities shutting down power generation to keep prices above free lol . that will happen here to if we get it together

[erinmore3775]

MJ wrote: "...why you only worried about 20 to 30 years ? the long game is what we need to address with short term switching to get away from being a slave to a utility..."

My cousin in Ontario just forwarded me her final quote for "not being a slave to a utility" for the 1200sq ft home she would like to build on the shores of the Bay of Quinte. It is for $24,624.54 PLUS GST and PST! She was offered a $3500 rebate. If she wanted to sell back power to Hydro One, she would be required to pay an additional $8,000 to $10,000 to install the hydro poles and line depending on if the lines and transformer can be split with the neighbours. At 68, she has a snowball's chance in a very warm place of recouping her costs before moving off to the old folks home.

Seems to me that perhaps you need to do a little more fact based research and less theoretical wishful thinking. Perhaps the place to start would be the references I mentioned from Germany. If you would like more latitude based, references to help with your search, please let me know. However, I would like to know, what is your threshold level of taxpayer/consumer based support for encouraging widespread adoption of solar in BC. Is it an additional $0.15 - 0.18 /kWh on your electrical bill or is it an additional $100 - $250 tax increase to cover the rebate incentive program? Or is it a combination of both? I think all contributors to this forum would be interested in your economic proposal.

[maryjane48]

cherry picking a scenerio is disigenuas at best . kinda like the hero the cons trumped infront of jt to cry about bills when facts are she was lot better off than others in her community .

the problem is when change is forced because some want to reject the future these things will happen . as example trumps healthcare will will boot 23 million plpl off healthcare . the gop refuses to see that single payer is the only choice they have and some are going to suffer and die because of it .


canada gets enough sunlight on avg to at very least cut utility power use in half . that meanns with no dams bc now has bills cut in half and power to sell . win win . your path leads to higher bills carbon being burned to move fish from a to b at 40 million a year that bchydros numbers and flooding of good productive land .

its that simple . my suggestion is sell your bchydro stocks because once clark loses a confidence vote . bclibs are gonzo . and im willing bet vbc will then move in the right direction . energy freedom as opposed to rightwing utility slavery .


shouldnt moms bills be paid by you ? i pay my moms :)