Site C

[Donald G]

Unread postby maryjane48 » 6 minutes ago

Yda but if you read the link i supplied you will see once its up and running the rates will be cheaper . There are now more solar workers than oil workers in states . Things are changing fast

WADR you have again given a misleading view of why the USA has more "solar" workers than others.

They are changing to other than hydro produced electricity in countries like the USA that do not have the geologic conditions to produce by the much "cheaper to produce" and "longer lasting" electricity produced from dams on rivers. In addition it takes much more manpower to produce 1000 kws from coal, oil, gas and wind than it does to produce the same amount from hydro produced electricity.

BC and Eastern Canada have the terrain suited to being able to produce much cheaper electricity from hydro.

[flamingfingers]

DONALD wrote:

BC and Eastern Canada have the terrain suited to being able to produce much cheaper electricity from hydro.

Oh, you mean like Muskrat Falls?

Muskrat Falls: Yes, there is a way out
By: Hans Rollmann | June 29, 2016

We can and must cancel Muskrat Falls. It’s really our only hope.

Well, it’s official: Muskrat Falls is a “boondoggle.”

Let’s review precisely how we got to where we are.

First, we were told that it was really the only way. The Holyrood Thermal Generating Station, which burns up to 18,000 barrels of oil a day in the winter months and is on its last legs, would need to go if we are to meet our greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions targets; we need a much cleaner and sustainable source of energy. So why not simply build a giant megadam in Labrador… again? Nalcor and the government told us it was the “least cost option,” though many rightly questioned that claim from the beginning, including the two independent bodies which the government commissioned to review the project. The government ignored those concerns, of course.

We were told Muskrat Falls energy could be sold to nearby provinces and states and help them meet their GHG emissions targets too. Win-win, right? It would only cost a few billion dollars up front.

There is a tremendously compelling reason to stop, and it is this: every step forward has thrust this province miles backward. This is consistent with what megaprojects have done to jurisdictions around the world. They breed corruption, devastation, and debt. Some publications were warning of this years ago. They have now been shown to be correct. When officials say, “Yes, we’re over-budget and behind schedule, but it would cost more to stop than to continue,” they are not factoring in that precedent shows we will continue to go even further over-budget and even more deeply into debt.

A pattern has emerged: things will be worse and costlier than we are told. Indeed, it’s the only predictable, observable rule that has been consistent. It is, therefore, impossible to even weigh the costs of stopping versus the costs of continuing—because the costs of continuing will continue to grow and grow. We do not yet know what they will be; every new month brings more unexpected costs and snags. But what we can say, with absolute certainty, is that if we cancel the project, we will have finally put a finite end to the debt and the waste.

The fact that we fell for such a boondoggle, and that when we finally realized how terrible it was we also shrugged our shoulders and caved in to government’s seductive lies that it was too late to turn things around, will leave the next generation of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and Canadians with the impression that we can’t get anything right.

http://theindependent.ca/2016/06/29/mus ... a-way-out/

[Urbane]

^^ Happily for us Site C is costing way less than the Muskrat Falls project and on a per capita basis waaaaaaay less. We're very fortunate. While your post is off topic it's still a nice reminder of our enviable position so thanks for that.

[erinmore3775]

While the cost benefit and environment benefit advantages and disadvantages of Site C and the future costs and benefits of the electricity it will produce continue to be debated, here are a few sites that put European electrical production and costs into a comparative Canadian perspective.

https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/average-electricity-prices-kwh.html

Even extrapolating these figures to current dollar values, The average Canadian pays about 1/3 what the average German pays for one kwh of electricity.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Electricity_prices_for_household_consumers,_second_half_2015_(%C2%B9)_(EUR_per_kWh)_YB16.png

Germans and Danes, citizens of countries with some of the greatest commitments to alternative non carbon based electrical production, paid the highest European tax rate on their electricity. Canada in contrast has one of the lowest tax rates on electricity.

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/what-german-households-pay-power

How the German electrical tax system works. The tax to support renewable energy production is 22%. The tax just to simply "use" electricity is 7%! Then over and above those taxes is the VAT (similar to our GST, a tax on a tax) of 16%!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-25/why-do-germany-s-electricity-prices-keep-falling-

Bloomberg points out that wholesale electricity prices in Germany have fallen about 40% since 2011. "While wholesale prices have fallen 13 percent in the past year, subsidies to fund Energiewende have pushed German consumer bills to the second-highest in the European Union after Denmark. Household prices rose 2 percent in 2014 from the previous year, Eurostat data show."

It is important to note that while Germany hopes to have 60% of its electrical production from renewables by 2035 BC has already exceeded that mark. It is also very unlikely that even with 60% of its electrical production from renewables that the German consumer will ever pay electrical rates similar to those of the BC consumer. With taxes making up almost 50% of the cost of electricity in Germany this is almost a guaranteed assumption.

When all the "facts" and cost comparisons are taken into consideration the best policy for BC electrical production through to 2035 is the development of Site C, the active encouragement of the development of solar and wind generation on Vancouver Island and in the Peace area, and an active conservation program fueled by rebates and tax incentives.

[Smurf]

Most of the negatives I see brought up in this thread such as Muskrat Falls have zero to do with site C or even BC for that matter.
Site C is probably the best thing happening to BC right now and will benefit us and our decedents for decades. I have seen no proof to say otherwise.

[alfred2]

can someone explain what muskrat falls has to do with site c and bc.

[flamingfingers]

Smurf wrote:

Site C is probably the best thing happening to BC right now and will benefit us and our decedents for decades.

That is highly doubtful!!

But if you meant our kids, their kids and generations to come, I still think it is doubtful.

[Donald G]

Unread postby flamingfingers » 14 minutes ago

That is highly doubtful!!

But if you meant our kids, their kids and generations to come, I still think it is doubtful.

The do nothing and complain if any other government does anything to plan for the future is what the NDP have said about every major project that any government has planned and successfully carried out over the last 50 years. I do not know how they can keep repeating the same old mantra when the huge financial benefits of the various BC Hydro dams is there for all to see.

Continually voicing such comments will insure that the NDP are never again elected in BC.

[flamingfingers]

^^That statement is just plain silly, DONALD. Do you have links that will prove such from 50 years ago? Please provide them, thanks.

[Donald G]

Postby flamingfingers » Today, 1:29 pm

Oh, you mean like Muskrat Falls?

Since a concrete mold made in the USA and put together on site collapsed it would appear to be an engineering problem rather than anything to do with the government. As anyone who has worked on a major project knows everything does not always go according to the best laid plans. That is a simple fact of life.

Fortunately completely different people planned and will be building the Site C project.

I fail to see how the problems being experienced at the Muskrat Falls Dam are in any way related to the Site C Project.

[Smurf]

Exactly, bridges collapse all over the world including Canada, does that mean we should never build another bridge.

Are there any links not just theory or propaganda that prove site C will be a failure or for that matter even over budget which is possible in todays world. There is a ton of proof from the past in BC and all over the world that in the end site C will be a success and for the province of BC.

[maryjane48]

Its for the mining companies that wont be held to high standards by this govt . The fact our rates are going up proves that while big companies get their hydro bill payed by us to the tune of millions .

[Donald G]

To maryjane ...

Why would you make a silly, unfounded statement like the one about mining?

Do you just not care about the truth?

[Smurf]

Smurf wrote:

Site C is probably the best thing happening to BC right now and will benefit us and our decedents for decades.

flamingfingers wrote:

That is highly doubtful!!

But if you meant our kids, their kids and generations to come, I still think it is doubtful.

I was thinking of myself. They are already serving 3 generations of my decedents and I could quite conceivably see 4 generations of my decedents being served by site C with many more to come in the decades after I pass that it will be in service. I do not think it is doubtful at all. One of the greatest things about Hydro power is the tremendous useful life span of the plants.

Please explain why you would be doubtful. You aren't just being negative are you.

[Smurf]

flamingfingers has pointed out to me that I have been wrongly using the word "decedent(s)". She was also correct in saying she thought I was thinking of "descendant(s)". I would like to thank her for this and hope I haven't mixed up too many people.