Provincial Liberals........ geniuses

[Urbane]

Urbane wrote: "Part of the problem is that we've been adding new programs over the years while not eliminating as many. I remember when we had one of these discussions a couple of years ago looking on the SD23 site to discover a number of new programs."

What many people fail to realize that most of the new programs including those related to trades, aboriginal programs, and ESL programs are mandated by the Ministry and must be provided when there is a need. Seldom, if ever, does the Ministry eliminate or curtail a mandated program. All new curriculum is mandated by the Ministry. However, what is not included in the Ministry implementation mandate is the cost of implementation, which often includes teacher training, new textbooks, and more often than not now, increased IT support.

What is totally lacking at the provincial level is an acknowledgement of what fiscal claw backs and downloads cost boards and the leadership to encourage amalgamation, develop the cost benefits for shared administration activities between boards, and a realization that each board and community is different and must act and react to their unique challenges and demands. We elected a Family First/Community First government. However, when it comes to public and social services, we have seen zero leadership in this direction. That must change.

Oh I don't let the Ministry off the hook. Far from it. Of course they mandate programs and then fail to cover all of the necessary costs of implementing those programs. Shame on them. But it's not true that all programs are Ministry initiated. We discovered a year or two ago that SD23 initiated a program whereby teachers would step away from classes, bring in TOC's, and discuss curriculum. Well, that's not an ideal situation for students educationally and it ended up costing a lot of money. To the credit of SD23 that program was eliminated.

So there are no innocent parties. It's not just the "ChristyLiberals" and it is not just the last few years. My whole career I kept hearing about "chronic under-funding" so let's keep our perspective. Let's look at things like the Manitoba model, let's look at what's really important, and let's also remember the research that I've posted previously that shows us that it is NOT the places spending the most that have the best educational outcomes. In many cases it's the exact opposite.

[rustled]

Good post, Urbane, and I'd add:

Erinmore, Clark is already pushing for one of your asks. Here's what you wrote:

What is totally lacking at the provincial level is an acknowledgement of what fiscal claw backs and downloads cost boards and the leadership to encourage amalgamation, develop the cost benefits for shared administration activities between boards, and a realization that each board and community is different and must act and react to their unique challenges and demands.

Here's what she said:

We're saying to schools, do what health care has done, do what hospitals have done: stop having all of your back office, your human resources, your accounting, let's not have 60 versions of that across the province. Let's take those administrative functions, do them cooperatively, better, integrate them. Health regions have done it, government has done it, it's time for schools to start finding those administrative savings as well. It's all taxpayers' money. I think if we can save money on administration, I think people would want us to do that.

It's in Urbane's post on page 3 of this thread.

It seems as though you'd rather stay in entrenched attack-the-government mode than recognize they've already proposed a solution you're in agreement with.

[erinmore3775]

Glad to see the support for the Manitoba Education and Funding model beyond the no strike portion of this model. However, it is important to note that this model includes a residential property tax component that has been used by boards to meet curriculum program or staffing commitments over and above provincial grants.

While it is nice for the Premier to float the amalgamation trial balloon, the MOE and the Trustee Association have not had any discussions regarding this for years. One of the problems around amalgamation remains student and capital program funding formulas. Unfortunately, funding formulas remain at the center of the education problems in BC.

For those who think that amalgamation will solve the fiscal problems related to education you to take some time and examine the problems related to management and budgets since the amalgamation of the Greater Totonto School Boards. It is not the perfect answer but it did change funding formulas and promote greater cooperation between the Great Toronto Board and the Ontario MOE.

[rustled]

We likely could come up with a better funding formula. It's nice to see you shifting focus away from blame and toward solutions. Cooperation is key. Polarization and politicization keep people at the forefront entrenched in old thinking, and the unhelpful rhetoric clouds the issue for the rest of us.

There are pros and cons to centralizing management, but we do know that what we're doing right now no longer serves us well. If there are already better funding models with proven results in other jurisdictions, let's see how they could apply here in BC.

And let's get everyone on board with supporting this, for the good of public education.