School rankings released

[Lady tehMa]

The disparity between "private" and public schools and schools in high and low socio-economic areas has been prevalent for over 10 years. What also has been noted is a trend of widening discrepancy between the performance of the "private" and "public" schools in general.

erinmore, I have pointed out that there need not be disparity. We're blue collar workers. We scrape and budget in order to send our kids to an independent school. Our school helps make it possible with work-for-tuition and help from the parent church. Over half our students come from disadvantaged homes. We have a high rate of special needs students who transfer in.
Our school does fundraising. The parent church supports us. We work hard to provide the best environment for our kids. We have a mandatory volunteer policy - you want your kid in the school? Commit to it. Our teachers aren't paid union rates. They also don't squawk when more CEA's are hired - they're glad for the help.

I can say definitively our teachers CARE. They really do place their students first. My children have NEVER had a teacher they disliked. Out of all the years in public school - and that includes university - I can think of 3 that made me feel human.

The BC Education system is broken. I think first the teachers need to get rid of the entitlement that comes with their degrees. If our teachers can do so much with so little government funding - why the heck can't the public school teachers do the same?

[erinmore3775]

The key to any parent involvement in a school program is a feeling of ownership. Thirty years ago the Toronto Board of Education set forth a program to encourage community development in schools. It was the time of the large Vietmanese refugee influx. Students were encouraged to bring their parents to school during the day and after school to learn about the curriculum. In many cases a bond was formed. The U of T education department was a leader in the development of this. Unfortunately cost savings and amalgamation ended it.

Currently teacher education programs pay bare lip service to the effects of poor socio-economic conditions on learning. They learn little on how to mitigate these. These lesson are learned on the job or from their experienced peers. I am not saying that current teachers are not attempting to do this, what I am saying is that the training and information regarding this has to begin earlier. When thisxoccursxit will also mean a a change in the attitude at the MOE, that sets teacher training curriculum.

[Lady tehMa]

The key to any parent involvement in a school program is a feeling of ownership. Thirty years ago the Toronto Board of Education set forth a program to encourage community development in schools. It was the time of the large Vietnamese refugee influx. Students were encouraged to bring their parents to school during the day and after school to learn about the curriculum. In many cases, a bond was formed. The U of T education department was a leader in the development of this. Unfortunately cost savings and amalgamation ended it.

Currently, teacher education programs pay bare lip service to the effects of poor socio-economic conditions on learning. They learn little on how to mitigate these. These lessons are learned on the job or from their experienced peers. I am not saying that current teachers are not attempting to do this, what I am saying is that the training and information regarding this has to begin earlier. When this occurs it will also mean a change in the attitude at the MOE, that sets teacher training curriculum.

So how is it, that the teachers at our school have managed to figure this out and the teachers at public haven't? Don't you think for yourselves? Does there have to be a course on how to handle things? Can't they go to schools that are managing this successfully, and say "show me"? Why wait for Your Powers That Be to sanction something?
What about taking ownership? Saying - money isn't coming in so we'll find a way to get more?

Having two kids in independent schooling cost us about $550 per month on a 10-month plan. Cheaper than many independent schools - but our school is about accessibility. Kids and parents raise money to help pay for it with bake sales, chocolate sales, plant sales; if there is a fund-raising option, it's been done. In cases where there is a real need, the parent church helps out. (In our case we did work-for-tuition for many years, and have put off toys and fancy vacations - you know we've never been to Mexico or Hawaii like so many others? Not even Disneyland. But it is worth it for us.)
The more well off in the school have been known to donate.
We have someone who looks down other avenues for funding for the school as a whole.
It isn't easy, but it can be done.

So why wait for the BCTF or the BC Teachers College to approve something? Why wait for a handout to deal with the problem when you can get together as a school and raise the money yourselves?

[rustled]

The key to any parent involvement in a school program is a feeling of ownership. Thirty years ago the Toronto Board of Education set forth a program to encourage community development in schools. It was the time of the large Vietmanese refugee influx. Students were encouraged to bring their parents to school during the day and after school to learn about the curriculum. In many cases a bond was formed. The U of T education department was a leader in the development of this. Unfortunately cost savings and amalgamation ended it.

Currently teacher education programs pay bare lip service to the effects of poor socio-economic conditions on learning. They learn little on how to mitigate these. These lesson are learned on the job or from their experienced peers. I am not saying that current teachers are not attempting to do this, what I am saying is that the training and information regarding this has to begin earlier. When thisxoccursxit will also mean a a change in the attitude at the MOE, that sets teacher training curriculum.

For decades now in BC, parents have been invited, welcomed, encouraged to be part of the educational team. PACs and DPACs received funding and were given a strong voice at the table. Getting parents involved is like pulling teeth. Your fix is a pie-in-the-sky waste of money.

Here's what did work for a while: allowing us to come together to fundraise for a playground, and then far more importantly, to build it. This brought in the working-class parents who operated equipment, lifted and lugged, and fed each other for the day, working alongside administrators and teachers they'd never met to build something for their local public school. It gave parents a sense of teamwork, ownership, it was huge in helping marginalized parents feel valued and needed and respected. That fell apart when CUPE said we were no longer allowed to install playgrounds. This I know from being there, at three playground experiences in three different districts over a decade.

Parents who already care are powerless when they come up against union rules. There's no sense of ownership once you realize how easily and how thoroughly the unions' needs trump your kids' needs.

Parents who don't care continue not to care.

Parents who had a bad school experience themselves aren't willing to come to schools at all.

Parents who feel it's the school's responsibility to deal with their kids education (or worse, treat it like a daycare) won't want to have their minds changed just because a teacher took an extra course on how to convince them to come in.

As a parent, working with the staff, I can tell you we did everything we could to convince the parents we needed most to be involved, to be involved. You simply cannot make them. This I know from being there, in three districts, over two decades: No course on socio-economics will change that.

Your expensive theories are expensive theories. You won't fix this by throwing money at it.

Edited to delete unnecessary grumpiness. Well, some of it.

[The Green Barbarian]

So you are ok with young children being home alone after school because mom has to work?

You are retired now, you look after them! That's what communities used to do. They looked after each other. And now everyone expects, nay demands, that the nanny-state government do it. And that's why we're running $30 billion deficits.

[KGT]

You are retired now, you look after them! That's what communities used to do. They looked after each other. And now everyone expects, nay demands, that the nanny-state government do it. And that's why we're running $30 billion deficits.

And how many children do you do after school care?

[rustled]

We can't do after-school care for each other in our homes like we used to. It's illegal now, thanks to those who prefer an expensive nanny-state to common sense.

[Urbane]

A few points:

1. It's all about people. Yes, we need to have a reasonable budget that provides class sizes that are appropriate but students in a class of 32 with a great teacher are far better off than students in a class of 20 with a poor teacher. Keep in mind also that in this province an effort has been made to have relatively small classes at the primary and intermediate levels and the research shows that's where smaller classes can really be beneficial.

2. No amount of money would convince those parents who are not very involved to become more involved in their child's education. Even if you bribed the parents with cash they'd be there in body but not in spirit.

3. Union regulations are there for the benefit of union members and not for the benefit of the students. One size fits all rules are counterproductive and often get in the way of targeting resources where they're needed most.

4. As the autism scale has expanded because of more comprehensive labeling the public school system in this province has adjusted and provided additional CEA's. Most of us would agree that the hiring of more CEA's is a good thing.

5. No matter how much money was budgeted for education the same critics would be telling us that it's not enough and they would be decrying the "cuts to education." I'll say again that throughout my entire career I kept hearing about the cuts to education. If it were all true there would be no system left now but the reality is that more money is being spent on education now than ever before in this province. In the end though it's not the amount of money that's budgeted but rather how the money is spent.

[goatboy]

Goatboy, I am impressed that you are able to drive your child to school and that you recognize that "money is tight" but you fail to address some of the major problems that exist in rural areas and in many area where boards must deal with urban centers and a rural population.

Like many, who choose only to see their satisfied place in the education system you and others fail to address those educational problems regularly faced by those that are outside your comfort zone.

I find it is interesting that while you seem to put down the socio-economic problems that may curtail educational progress. Instead of saying everything is all right lets see if the system can be made better. The MOE and the Province say we have the best teachers, you disagree. The MOE and you say the Provinces School Boards do a poor job of spending our education dollars. Yet both you and the MOE refuse to examine how the money could better spent. The government could also choose to acknowledge the problem and work to solve it. This could be accomplished by:

- Meeting with Trustees Administrators, and Teacher to identify the three major causes of educational student performance discrepancies between urban and rural areas.
- Development of a 5 year plan that would focus resources on the identified areas.
- Set reasonable performance expectations for improvement in these areas and reward boards for meeting these goals.
- Require teacher education programs to include parent involvement programs and specific program acknowledgment of the educational growth needs of lower socio-economic students.
- A renegotiation of the regional funding formulas
- Incentives for amalgamation of boards of education.
Please explain why you do not support these ideas or at the very least explain how you would improve the system.

I appreciate you putting words in my mouth but no where have I said that I don't agree that we have the best teachers. What I did say is that your naive to think that we have only the best teachers.
No where did I say that I don't think the Provinces School Boards do a poor job of spending their money. If anything, that's what YOU are saying. What I am saying is there really a problem to start with? Change happens, it does not mean there is a problem. Challenges, of course, but a "end is nigh" problem that the BCTF likes to promote, no.
I think all your idea's a great, as long as we don't have to pile tons of money into a system that is performing at a world class standard.

[goatboy]

It's cheaper to support children and families than it is to build and staff jails.

What a great sound bite but totally useless as a policy.

[The Green Barbarian]

And how many children do you do after school care?

why is that relevant? You are the one crying for billions to be spent on daycare, not me.

[KGT]

You are so amusing GB. :)

[KGT]

And I could just sit there quietly saying "YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS". Ahhhh...what a beautiful scene...

It's too bad you can't say it quietly on here. :)

[The Green Barbarian]

It's too bad you can't say it quietly on here. :)

touché!

So what do you do to fill your time now? My parents have one major source - GRANDKIDS.

[KGT]

touché!

So what do you do to fill your time now? My parents have one major source - GRANDKIDS.

No grandkids yet. Still waiting. Impatiently.

So - Saturday I am heading to Europe for 3 months. Maybe someone will be pregnant when I get home. :)