Voting for Clark

[LoneWolf_53]

And that is exactly how electric cars and not long after how houses will be powered .

Uhuh and if memory serves we've been hearing that about houses for at least two decades now, if not longer.

I guess on the bright side, if you keep repeating it, and live long enough, eventually you might be right.

[hobbyguy]

MJ - for starters, only some of the Tesla stations have solar canopies. The majority do not (including the ones I have seen in Kelowna). The ones that do have solar canopies only augment the electricity consumed.

Secondly, on the rough basis of charging an 80 KWH battery in one hour: a solar panel will produce about 10 watts per square foot. So that means, under ideal conditions and with steady use (no storage device) each solar canopy would have to be 80,000/10 = 8,000 sq ft in order to cover constant use. Except, of course, if you want to charge when it is cloudy/raining or it is at night. 8,000 square feet is bigger than the average city lot.

Thirdly, many commuters are going to come home at night and plug in at home - they won't likely have solar panels - especially as solar panels are uneconomic at BC hydro rates, and especially given the low outputs achievable in most parts of BC. At best, you might figure on 50% efficiency for solar panels in BC, further complicating the matter, as does the number of people living in condos etc.

At any rate, there is no way you can expect to have solar powered charging stations as a practical reality for 80 KWH batteries on 1 hour charges. That's a lot of "juice".

[The Green Barbarian]

Personally I think Horgan is between a rock and a hard spot. The provincial NDP unlike the other parties, is tied to the same purse strings as the Federal NDP, and the Federal back room folks and advisers are calling shots. I honestly don't think those back room folks and advisers actually want to ever form government, they're happy to just keep collecting membership dues for a living.

I agree with you 100%. Now can you convince the delusional NDP supporters who last election kept saying that the provincial and Federal NDP had no relationship and were completely distinct? Because that just ain't true.

[maryjane48]

MJ - for starters, only some of the Tesla stations have solar canopies. The majority do not (including the ones I have seen in Kelowna). The ones that do have solar canopies only augment the electricity consumed.

Secondly, on the rough basis of charging an 80 KWH battery in one hour: a solar panel will produce about 10 watts per square foot. So that means, under ideal conditions and with steady use (no storage device) each solar canopy would have to be 80,000/10 = 8,000 sq ft in order to cover constant use. Except, of course, if you want to charge when it is cloudy/raining or it is at night. 8,000 square feet is bigger than the average city lot.

Thirdly, many commuters are going to come home at night and plug in at home - they won't likely have solar panels - especially as solar panels are uneconomic at BC hydro rates, and especially given the low outputs achievable in most parts of BC. At best, you might figure on 50% efficiency for solar panels in BC, further complicating the matter, as does the number of people living in condos etc.

At any rate, there is no way you can expect to have solar powered charging stations as a practical reality for 80 KWH batteries on 1 hour charges. That's a lot of "juice".

For starters the solar panels are on the verge of being cheaper than hydro . All the tesla station in the states are solar powered with grid back up . That is the facts . You can ignore all you want butIt wont change realitty . The dam is a gamble that wont be winner except to mining companies who get thier hydro bills paid by us tax payers

[hobbyguy]

MJ - This is a bit off topic, but solar panels are NOT on the verge of being cheaper in BC.

The information that I find on costing comes mostly from SOLAR advocates, and so overstates the solar situation. However, context matters. IF you live in California, and you own a single family home with a large south facing exposure, maybe the answer is yes. Why? Big subsidies from government, lots of sunshine year round, no pesky snow, high cost of grid electricity.

San Francisco grid rates are $.2042/kwh. Compare that to Canadian provinces with lots of hydro power, and it is 2.5 to 3 times as much. https://www.hydro.mb.ca/regulatory_affairs/electric/gra_2012_2013/Appendix_19.pdf(that comparison is a bit, but not much out of date).

So with government subsidies that approach half of the cost of installation, and way higher grid costs, yup the economics of solar panels in San Francisco starts to look attractive.

But, inevitably, I find that solar advocates underestimate two key factors and ignore a third. They never consider the total context. The key things they choose to ignore are effective life (the guarantees I saw were no more than 10 yrs at 80% efficiency) and efficiency. Always with the "most solar panels last 30-40 years" comments, and then base the economic calculations on 100% over 25 years. Well, IF solar panels will last 30-40 yrs and the output efficiency will barely drop - then why are the warranties and guarantees only for 5-10 yrs at 80%?

The second factor that gets underestimated is the installation costs. Retrofits are always much much more expensive than new construction, and if the single family home is not designed for solar, actual efficiency will likely be lower due to sub optimal roof pitch angles, house orientation etc. So they use new construction costs based on ideal siting and design.

Anyway, the case for "cost crossover" of solar panel installations just isn't there. If we take the factors all involved in a San Francisco installation, the true "cost crossover" of solar panel installation in BC would be: 1 x 2 (government subsidy) x 1.5 (efficiency) x 1.3 (retrofit) x 2.5 (electricity grid price) = 9.75 times higher in BC. If we just look at the grid price, government subsidy and efficiency, then our grid cost would have to be 7.5 times high than it is to truly hit "crossover".

And then consider this: the site C dam (and all hydro power) is simply a very effective way of capturing solar energy. We allow nature to accumulate the solar energy (heats ocean makes clouds rains) and simply add a collection device ( a dam). By letting nature do most of the hard work, we get all that solar energy at a much cheaper price. Once again, nature knows best.

So the BC Libs are spot on in deciding to build site C. Best solar project ever!

[maryjane48]

They are not spot on and yes solar panels are now being used as primary electrical use in the states
The 2016 edition of this old house uses 2 solar panels with grid back up . But the way it will work is when there is no one home the panels will be selling power back to the utility and when people are there most the power will come from the panels u til night . It essentialy is utility neutral

[LoneWolf_53]

They are not spot on and yes solar panels are now being used as primary electrical use in the states
The 2016 edition of this old house uses 2 solar panels with grid back up . But the way it will work is when there is no one home the panels will be selling power back to the utility and when people are there most the power will come from the panels u til night . It essentialy is utility neutral

Funny how builders up here aren't drinking your kool-aid, given you're practically trying to sell it as free power, and income when you aren't home.

It would appear that you are exactly the type of individual the marketers are targeting.

[flamingfingers]

I am quite sure that builders of high end homes are not requested to install solar panel systems on these houses. After all, an individual contracting with a firm to build a $2, $3, or $5 million dollar home certainly is not terribly concerned with paying a Hydro bill of $500 or so....

[Hurtlander]

Solar power has come further in the last few years than many people realize. I just recently saw many homes in the Yukon with huge solar arrays in their yards, I'm willing to bet these solar systems weren't installed to be used only in the summer months...

[rustled]

You need to be aware that in many jurisdictions where the utility must buy the solar power sent back up to the grid, this is driving up energy costs.

Consider this: everyone's solar is producing power at the same time, not necessarily when it's actually needed. This overproduction becomes an unnecessary cost to the utility, which in turn is passed on to the end user. And eventually, as more people become producers...

I agree that Site C is much preferable.

[hobbyguy]

Hurtalnder - electricity rates in the Yukon are higher than here. They get a subsidy on the first bit, but the rates beyond that can be as much as $.72/KWH - Yikes! http://www.housing.yk.ca/pdf/Electrical_Rates.pdf - and they jump the more you use!

Those rates match up very closely to what I posted earlier, that electricity grid cost/efficiency/ etc. would have to go up by a multiplier of 7.5 to 9.75 for solar to make sense. I pay Fortis .0982 x 7.5 = .7365 .... so private PV solar does make sense there. Heck if I was paying that much I would even consider a noisy windmill!

[LoneWolf_53]

I am quite sure that builders of high end homes are not requested to install solar panel systems on these houses. After all, an individual contracting with a firm to build a $2, $3, or $5 million dollar home certainly is not terribly concerned with paying a Hydro bill of $500 or so....

You may be quite sure, but you'd be mistaken, and that's an area I do know somewhat about.

Quite a few homes I've encountered do in fact have solar, but it's nowhere near the main source of power that maryjane48 is trying to pass it off as being.

Solar power has come further in the last few years than many people realize. I just recently saw many homes in the Yukon with huge solar arrays in their yards, I'm willing to bet these solar systems weren't installed to be used only in the summer months...

That may be but it's nowhere near the stage that maryjane48 is trying to sell us as being fact, given it's still nothing more than an auxiliary system in most cases.

The odd hippie living off the grid, and content with one 5 watt bulb and an electric burner doesn't count.

We're talking in terms of normal everyday use, and the requirements that puts on a homes electrical system.

[Symbonite]

Id be really suprised if she did lose

[Rosemary1]

From what I understand homes with solar panels still need a back up source of power.

[Smurf]

With good battery banks you can run solely on solar but there is a lot to it similar to people in motorhomes. I don't think very many people here truly understand solar systems and what it would take to run stoves, dryers etc. Sure you can be away all day and sell to the system but when you come home cook supper, wash your cloths and a lot of other duties you will probably greatly surpass what you sold. Yes they are a good supplement to the grid but I doubt if many would be happy trying to live off it.

Probably time to get back on topic. At this time there is no challenge to Christy and the Liberals.