Scrap MSP?

[hobbyguy]

The data I use is fairly straightforward.

Ontario does not charge MSP premiums, but Ontario also has a 20% income tax surcharge we don't pay. If you make 41k - 75k in Ontario, your income tax bracket is 18.8% higher - plus the surtax.

Interesting that BC's income tax is more progressive than Ontario's. At 151k per year BC's tax bracket is 20% higher.

https://home.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/pdf/2016/06/Federal-and-Provincial-Income-Tax-Rates-and-Brackets-and-Surtaxes-for-2015-and-2016.pdf

And don't forget, Ontario is running a $7.5 billion deficit, so they are definitely NOT covering their costs with what they are charging. Eventually Ontario is going to have to up their income tax rates.

So in reality, once you hit 41k in Ontario, you start paying more, and more, and more - unless you are a top income earner - than in BC. And the future there looks like you are going to pay even more as they try to get the deficit under control.

[flamingfingers]

So, hg - if you have taken part in contract negotiations for employers, you do acknowledge that the employers collect the value of MSP contributions and submit this to MSP, then add that amount onto 'Gross Income' on the employees' T4? This pertains only to BC.

[Veovis]

So, hg - if you have taken part in contract negotiations for employers, you do acknowledge that the employers collect the value of MSP contributions and submit this to MSP, then add that amount onto 'Gross Income' on the employees' T4? This pertains only to BC.

This is nothing less than a delusional look at benefits. Two people with the same wage earn the same value to a degree the one that is best and wins the position and get benefits receives thousands in benefits at a small fraction of the cost, your view is nothing other than faulty logic

[Smurf]

Hobbyguy I never said they would get it back I said they should get it back because it did, does, cost them money off their pay check.

[GordonH]

Using Canada Revenue Agency online payroll deduction site

Earning $2,400 bi-weekly, based on 2017 deduction levels, The amounts I post will be take home.

Alberta $1,792.35
BC $1,828.57
Manitoba $1,717.64
New Brunswick $1,722.36
Newfoundland and Labrador $1,709.23
Nova Scotia $1,696.75
Ontario $1,797.61
PEI $1,708.35
Quebec $1,997.45
Saskatchewan $1,752.55
NWT $1,824.30
Nunavut $1,855.32
Yukon $1,817.22

Earnings, pay period & calculations exactly the same (using each Provinces & Territories deductions)

[hobbyguy]

The ONLY time that MSP premiums are added as a taxable benefit to employee earnings is when the employer pays for them.

[GordonH]

The ONLY time that MSP premiums are added as a taxable benefit to employee earnings is when the employer pays for them.

Since there are only 2 options either individual pays it themselves or their employer pays it.

[maryjane48]

msp doesnt need be scrapped if the lower non pay limit is raised and after 40 thousand its graduated every 20 thousand .

[hobbyguy]

Gordon, try this link: https://simpletax.ca/calculator

Based on $63,600 annual income, I get provincial taxes owed as:

BC: $3,381
Ont.: $3,611
Alberta: $4,515
Manitoba: $6,518

This one gives a good overview: http://www.ultimatecalculators.com/canada_tax_calculator.html but doesn't break out the provincial tax. Only Nunavut has lower income taxes than BC when I plug in 63,600 annual income.

Ontario is indeed very close to BC, but remember that they are going to have to do something with taxes soon because of their huge deficits.

Also Ontario is taking another 1% from everyone in sales tax. Alberta has no sales tax, so their total taxation is less.

[twobits]

Using Canada Revenue Agency online payroll deduction site

Earning $2,400 bi-weekly, based on 2017 deduction levels, The amounts I post will be take home.

Alberta $1,792.35
BC $1,828.57
Manitoba $1,717.64
New Brunswick $1,722.36
Newfoundland and Labrador $1,709.23
Nova Scotia $1,696.75
Ontario $1,797.61
PEI $1,708.35
Quebec $1,997.45
Saskatchewan $1,752.55
NWT $1,824.30
Nunavut $1,855.32
Yukon $1,817.22

Earnings, pay period & calculations exactly the same (using each Provinces & Territories deductions)

This is the same as managing statistics to get the outcome you desire. How bout you re run the numbers at 1800 and 3000 bi weekly and see if your "sweet spot" doesn't disapear.

[GordonH]

Using Canada Revenue Agency online payroll deduction site

Earning $2,400 bi-weekly, based on 2017 deduction levels, The amounts I post will be take home.

Alberta $1,792.35
BC $1,828.57
Manitoba $1,717.64
New Brunswick $1,722.36
Newfoundland and Labrador $1,709.23
Nova Scotia $1,696.75
Ontario $1,797.61
PEI $1,708.35
Quebec $1,997.45
Saskatchewan $1,752.55
NWT $1,824.30
Nunavut $1,855.32
Yukon $1,817.22

Earnings, pay period & calculations exactly the same (using each Provinces & Territories deductions)

This is the same as managing statistics to get the outcome you desire. How bout you re run the numbers at 1800 and 3000 bi weekly and see if your "sweet spot" doesn't disapear.

I based it on $30/per Hr at 40 per week. You can run whatever numbers you want, here is the link.
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/pdoc/

[GordonH]

Gordon, try this link: https://simpletax.ca/calculator

Based on $63,600 annual income, I get provincial taxes owed as:

BC: $3,381
Ont.: $3,611
Alberta: $4,515
Manitoba: $6,518

This one gives a good overview: http://www.ultimatecalculators.com/canada_tax_calculator.html but doesn't break out the provincial tax. Only Nunavut has lower income taxes than BC when I plug in 63,600 annual income.

Ontario is indeed very close to BC, but remember that they are going to have to do something with taxes soon because of their huge deficits.

Also Ontario is taking another 1% from everyone in sales tax. Alberta has no sales tax, so their total taxation is less.

Sorry I use Canada Revenue Agency, since they are ones collecting taxes & they are ones everyone send their returns to.

[maryjane48]

alberta needs a sales tax . also ontario has way more folks than bc and way more infrastructue maintaining i would imagine .

[Smurf]

Hobbyguy it does not matter how it is shown on the pay stub, anyone who has ever done any negotiations knows that it was negotiated with a cash value. I am willing to bet there is not one single company large enough to have a union that just gave their employees free health care. Just paid for it out of their pocket. Not one.

Actually it is a benefit paid for by money taken out of the employees pay raise as negotiated during contract negotiations. But call it what you want at this point it is the employees money regardless of who writes the check. And yes as I said earlier the employee would probably suffer that loss in most cases.

[hobbyguy]

Actually MJ sales tax is very regressive. The lower your income the more it bites. It is a very blunt instrument. You can't make sales tax not apply to lower income folks like you can with MSP premiums. (although things like GST rebates help)

But no taxation system can be 100% fair. You just have to decide on a balance.