BC Paramedics petition

[gordon_as]

Why would they not earn as least as much as a FF? Their present union is weak. .

Which is EXACTLY what they are NOT mentioning when they ask people to sign their petition.

background:
The base rate for Kelowna Firefighters is $90,000.00 but most earn between $105,000.00 and $114,000.00 .
If they get 17.5% again next time the contract is settled , that's a $20,000 raise.
No wonder the Paramedics want in that club.

[flamingfingers]

gordon wrote:

background:
The base rate for Kelowna Firefighters is $90,000.00 but most earn between $105,000.00 and $114,000.00 .
If they get 17.5% again next time the contract is settled , that's a $20,000 raise.
No wonder the Paramedics want in that club.

Hey, why shouldn't they go for it?? The more ancillary services make hourly or salary-wise, the easier it is to justify pay increases to other sectors.

[gordon_as]

Doh !

[flamingfingers]

Doh !

Do you have a problem with wage earners making more money?

[pentona]

They are not in the HEU , but thanks for reminding us about Bill 37 which slashed wages by 15% in 2004.

My mistake on that one; sorry. CUPE represents them I believe.

If the majority of FF calls are to assist EHS and FF's do not transport patients, only stableize and wait for EHS to arrive and take over to finish the call, why would EHS make less than a FF? If they are in charge of the call, they should earn as much or more, I would say.

[Drip_Torch]

The Fire and Police Services Collective Bargaining Act protects the public from interruptions to certain essential services by referring all bargaining impasses to binding interest arbitration.

As a casual reader to thread I'll chime in to say I hear you, however, I sure don't blame the paramedics for making the play. "Dysfunction Junction" has an address of Suite 600 - 1066 West Hastings, Vancouver, BC. For those of you unfamiliar with the amusement ride located there - it's called the BC LRB.

Their business is conflict management. And, if there is a person in the room that would put on their pants to eat a free meal for a firefighters wage - they're the fodder that the lawyers create invoices from.

Sorry, but I can't harbour any contempt for a bargaining unit that would try to manoeuver around that fun factory. They lost sight of their mandate over a decade ago and while I won't say everyone involved lacks integrity - the organization, as a whole, has stinking lesion festering where the integrity used to be.

Too much resentment for the game to have any left over for the players.

Edit to add:

The collective bargaining Act the paramedics are trying to manoeuver towards provides some focus and incentive towards collective bargaining. The LRB is based on a Grade 10 algorithm, centered around adding enough segments into a bargaining unit, that they can start dividing them off against each other.

[Smurf]

gordon_wrote:
So , Smurf , you are going on record to state that paramedics will not gain financially if this goes through ?

Are you putting words in my mouth. I do not remember saying anything about whether or not they would gain financially. However if I did I would probably say I would hope they would get a better contract.

gordon_as wrote:

Smurf wrote:
Then do it because we are not the US. .


Binding arbitration works differently on respective sides of the 49th parallel ?

I have not studied it so this is an opinion, but I would say yes. In fact it would not surprise me if there were subtle differences between Canadian provinces. How ever since you were the one that brought it up as a supposed truth should it not be you that proves whether or not it is.

[Smurf]

Gordon_as, I have to ask and admit I might have missed it earlier but did you ask any of them the questions you are asking here. Are they deliberately hiding the information you are questioning or is it there for the asking. Are they refusing to answer if you have questions or for that matter even deflecting. It would be interesting to know. In fact if I run into one of their stands and I will try, I am going to ask them. Hopefully I can get back to you.

[gordon_as]

Gordon_as, I have to ask and admit I might have missed it earlier but did you ask any of them the questions you are asking here. Are they deliberately hiding the information you are questioning or is it there for the asking. Are they refusing to answer if you have questions or for that matter even deflecting. It would be interesting to know. In fact if I run into one of their stands and I will try, I am going to ask them. Hopefully I can get back to you.

From AM1150
Troy, a paramedic who spoke to NEWS 1130, says deeming them an essential service, would mean the elimination of labour disputes. He hopes that would mean the end of lockouts and strikes — which would help protect the public when emergencies happen.

“We don’t ever want to withhold those services from the public. We love our jobs, we want to help the public, that’s what we’re there for and we just don’t want to be able to have this used as a tool to be used against the public, so that’s the big thing.”

From CKNW AM980
“When it comes to bargaining we have no control over strike votes or accepting or refusing contracts. We don’t think the ambulance service should be in that precarious of a position.”

From Penticton Western News
“It would ensure that we can’t strike and they can’t lock us out so we can provide better service to the communities,” said Reems, who was standing outside the South Okanagan Events Centre collecting signatures on Saturday night.

From CFTK TV Terrace BC
Prince Rupert paramedic Sam Anderson says they want to be considered an essential service- and included in the police and fire act, which he says would be beneficial to everyone.

"It will protect them from ambulance paramedics from going on strike or being locked up from the government, that's the biggest benefit that it'll have, but it'll also give us the same treatment and respect as any other essential service in B.C.” says Anderson.

From CBC

"We do the job because we want to show up and do a service to the community," Henshaw told Radio West host Audrey Mckinnon.

"We don't want service disruptions as a result of failed negotiations."

From MyCaribooNow
“This is good for the community so there will be coverage even in labour disputes and there won’t really be too much of a labour dispute because a third-party arbitrator would decide what’s best for both sides,” he says, “we don’t want to go on strike, we don’t want to be in labour disputes, we don’t want to be locked out. We do this to help people we do this for the community.”

From CTV vancouver
"It will prevent the ambulance service from ever having a labour dispute," said Troy Gienger, who has worked as a paramedic in the province for 22 years.

Gienger said there has been unrest among paramedics for years, but it's coming to a head as the province's overdose epidemic stretches their resources to the limit.
"With the recent fentanyl overdoses, call volumes are astronomical. They're just going up tenfold," he said.] "This is all playing into why this needs to happen now."

Well , bless their hearts.

I could go on ,and on , or you could google BC Paramedics petition , and see a similar narrative from a paramedic in probably every single news outlet in the province. (it's almost like they have been coached on what to say , and what not to mention)

[Even Steven]

Anytime unions or union members say things like "It's all about the public" or "We want to provide a better service for the public" - it's all about their paychecks.

[Drip_Torch]

Well , bless their hearts.

I could go on ,and on , or you could google BC Paramedics petition , and see a similar narrative from a paramedic in probably every single news outlet in the province. (it's almost like they have been coached on what to say , and what not to mention)

Both Milgram's "Agentic State" and the chapter titled "the union question", in the book "my life", explain this social phenomenon in depth.

If you're trying to tell me that a party in a BC labour relations negotiation is feeding me a crap sandwich... I'm going to have to say, "well yeah, that's how it works."

If they do succeed, and the RCMP do unionize their members as well, I see a section 41 minister's direction to move towards a joint council as an obvious response. Immediately open a section 79 industrial inquiry, recommend different classes of membership and presto - those part time paramedics are still making 2 bucks an hour on stand-by, but paying a daily lease on their car and getting a t2200 for their fuel expenses and uniform.

That contract could be ratified with a remarkable 65 to 70 percent vote in favour - it's a simple numbers game. Childs play really, not to worry, the shiny shoe crew at 1066 west hastings got this.

For the record: I can watch an organization fail miserably, and if they do it with some ethics and make some attempt at legitimizing the failure after the fact, forgive them. I have nothing but disdain, disrespect and contempt for the BC LRB as it's functioning today.

The games rigged, so I don't blame union management for trying to find a path to real collective bargaining, or binding arbitration.

[mr.bandaid]

Once again Gordon is trying to draw similarities between Fire and Ambulance regarding work when the only real similarity is the fact that both driven emergency vehicles have emergency lights. Fire has a huge lobby force north america wide totaling hundreds of thousands member whereas the paramedics only have 4000 that is buried in with 40,000 others who have no idea what we do. The only thing that would remotely connect these two services would be the police and fire services bargaining act if they are successful in getting an amendment.
For me it is a mute point, I will not benefit one way or the other. For BC who is having a dickens of a time recruiting paramedics this may help. As for the wages that are currently made imagine living in Vancouver on roughly 60 grand a year to begin.
You want to compare work and compensation at least compare apple to apples and for gods sake go to that web page I provided and ask your questions there. All you're doing here is trolling.

[Chyren]

You know whats amazing as I scan these posts and see people's comments?

1) People are upset that the Paramedics want more money. (EVERY one of you who complain about this fact would like more money doing what they do now)

2) Comparing what Paramedics deal with to Police or Fire is apples to oranges. Different jobs. Different risks. Using the example of "all three are at the same scene" is just not accurate.

If there's a car crash, the cops are investigating the event and the fire are getting the people out and the paramedics are attempting to save the lives of the people or treat injuries. All different roles that carry different risks.

If they want more money then go for it!

[gordon_as]

Once again Gordon is trying to draw similarities between Fire and Ambulance regarding work when the only real similarity is the fact that both driven emergency vehicles have emergency lights.

Interestingly , it has been you and others drawing similarities between fire and ambulance , not me.

Fire has a huge lobby force north america wide totaling hundreds of thousands member whereas the paramedics only have 4000 that is buried in with 40,000 others who have no idea what we do. The only thing that would remotely connect these two services would be the police and fire services bargaining act if they are successful in getting an amendment.

If that is the only thing that remotely connects the two services , then should they both enjoy the same bargaining rights ?

For me it is a mute point, I will not benefit one way or the other.

Because you are no longer a Paramedic ?

For BC who is having a dickens of a time recruiting paramedics this may help. As for the wages that are currently made imagine living in Vancouver on roughly 60 grand a year to begin.

Thank you for touching on that. Interestingly , part of the bigger picture is that firefighters in small communities argue that they should get the same pay as firefighters in Metro Vancouver. Through the process of binding arbitration , and using this argument , they seem to be working toward that goal.

You want to compare work and compensation at least compare apple to apples and for gods sake go to that web page I provided and ask your questions there. All you're doing here is trolling.

No , what I am doing here is pointing out that the narrative being used by the Paramedics to solicit signatures focuses on the points that they can entice signatures with , while ignoring the points that might make the average taxpayer pause and think for a moment before signing.

[gordon_as]

You know whats amazing as I scan these posts and see people's comments?

1) People are upset that the Paramedics want more money. (EVERY one of you who complain about this fact would like more money doing what they do now)

I don't think I have seen any posts complaining that Paramedics want more money. My posts have been about the way in which they are trying to achieve that goal.

2) Comparing what Paramedics deal with to Police or Fire is apples to oranges. Different jobs. Different risks. Using the example of "all three are at the same scene" is just not accurate.

Correct

If there's a car crash, the cops are investigating the event and the fire are getting the people out and the paramedics are attempting to save the lives of the people or treat injuries. All different roles that carry different risks.

If they want more money then go for it!

Correct again. They should go for the money , but quit telling people they ONLY want to protect the public from labour disruptions.