BC hydro exposed

[maryjane48]

sorry pal but you only get speak for your self . i dont demand anything . but what i do believe in is a govt doing the right policy . that doesnt include building moneylit dams or frivolus court cases .

the bclibs have taken robbing icbc and hydro to new levels . yet keep raising rates . the question is who will put a end to it . and you really should call clarks gang liberals . lol they are harper cons and if dont know that i suggest refrain from voting because clearly your con-fused as to what party stands for what

[Dizzy1]

the question is who will put a end to it

And which political party will stand up and say "no" to free money for their coffers?

[Dizzy1]

it doesnt matter who started it .

It only matters if you can attach Clark's name to it, right?

[lasnomadas]

Geez....I clicked on a BC Hydro thread and a Site C dam fight broke out. My final word before I leave this thread is that even BC Hydro seems to be confused about whether or not to proceed with Site C. They've given the Boons and other landowners up there another 30 days to live in their homes before they take the bulldozer to them. Why?

It might be that they're afraid the BCUC's going to give them a failing grade when the NDP/Green alliance takes over. Or it could be that they finally realize that it was just a stupid Christy Clark idea in the first place. CA isn't going to buy our electricity anymore since they've gone almost exclusively alternative renewable energy, and Notley sure as heck won't want it when she finds out her precious KM pipeline expansion is a no-go under B.C.'s new government. Even the smarter BC Liberal MLAs admit that LNG export is a dead horse, so why do we need another methane-belching hydroelectric dam?

And you know what, hobbyguy et al? Name-calling should be reserved for schoolchildren on the playground. Condescending phrases like 'NDP tooters' fits that category. You'd probably jump all over me if I called you a 'BC Liberal nether-regions tooter' even though it's closer to the truth than the silly names you use. Oh, and you Site C pushers are so far behind, you think you're ahead.

[Urban Cowboy]

sorry pal but you only get speak for your self . i dont demand anything . but what i do believe in is a govt doing the right policy . that doesnt include building moneylit dams or frivolus court cases .

Your understanding (read lack of understanding) of the court case, it's costs, and cost savings, is only equaled by your blindingly biased understanding of site "C" and its pros and cons.

Hint: Court cases can sometimes save you money, even if you lose! That would make it far from frivolous.

[maryjane48]

lol but they lost . time to put down the magic dust and see the reality . or actualy keep on because the holes only getting deeper and if the scoc stops site c based on walking all over 2 first nation bands you willing to help pay the costs on another money wasting clark ego trip?. i didnt think so.

[Hurtlander]

Could you please point me towards this information because I missed it somewhere and can't seem to find it.

Carefully read the entire link I provided, starting with the title of the article. There's even an easy to understand graph that clearly shows that BC is a net exporter of electricity, incase you're unable or unwilling to take the time to read the entire article.

[hobbyguy]

The followers of the feckless NDP just can't see it.

BC Hydro makes money by:

1. Buy power from other suppliers off peak when it is cheap.
2. Throttle back production at its dams, storing more water behind them (like a gigantic battery only storing potential energy instead of electrical charge).
3. When peak electricity demand time arrives, throttle production up, releasing the stored water (making kinetic energy) to generate peak electricity which is sold at a much higher price.
$. That profit is then returned to the people of BC in two forms: consistently low electricity prices compared to the rest of the world, and "dividends" paid to our government to help pay for social programs like healthcare.

It is a great business model - buy low, sell high.

Add site C, and you have MORE "dividends" to help pay for social programs.

One thing for certain we can say about the Canadian, and North American grids in the future: there will be an even higher premium and demand for synchronous peak demand power. It is also highly likely (I would say 80% probability) that subsidized wind and solar producers will further destroy off peak prices.

That will very likely further enhance that business opportunity. A business opportunity that will benefit everyone in BC.

OF course the entire issue of peak versus off peak demand seems to be lost on the followers of the NDP.

Won't you be surprised when IF the NDP get a chance and do kill site C, your rates go up and you get to pay TOU billing prices. Oh, and your taxes will go up too, as the revenue from site C won't be there to help out - but, just as with NDP killing Kemano, there will be provincial debt that has to be paid.

The NDP can't run a popcorn stand! And you choose to listen to the NDP about a complex issue like energy policy!!

[Dizzy1]

$. That profit is then returned to the people of BC in two forms: consistently low electricity prices compared to the rest of the world, and "dividends" paid to our government to help pay for social programs like healthcare.

Sounds like a NDP dream. So why are so many NDP supporters blasting this? Oh yeah, I forgot - its all about Clark.

[Hurtlander]

The NDP can't run a popcorn stand! And you choose to listen to the NDP about a complex issue like energy policy!!

Horgan worked for Columbia Power as director of corporate affairs where he oversaw the upgrading two hydro dams. He's undoubtedly forgot more about this "complex issue" than you'll ever know.

Also, stop your stupid accusations that the NDP are against site C.... Certainly some NDP supporters are against site C, however many NDP'rs do support site C. Horgan has never said he's against site C .......BUT WEAVER'S GREEN PARTY, AND ALL GREEN SUPPORTERS ARE OFFICIALLY 100% AGAINST SITE C.

[Hurtlander]

just as with NDP killing Kemano, there will be provincial debt that has to be paid.

OMG, When Kemano1 was built the important salmon bearing Nechako River lost 75% of its flow. When Alcan wanted to build Kemano2 the NDP said to Alcan sure, but find a way to do so without totally destroying the rest of the Nechako salmon run, after years of negotiating back and forth Alcan wouldn't commit to protecting the salmon. Consequently the NDP had no choice but to shut down the Kemano2 project to save one of BC's important salmon runs.

You certainly are a contradictory person, you're always going on about the importance of weaning ourselves off fossil fuels, and switching over to electric cars etc, but evidently you have the typical shortsighted, narrow minded Liberal mind set of not giving the same concerns towards wildlife and salmon because they won't produce the same amount of revenue.....it's all about the money with you guys.

[maryjane48]

i dont want hydro sellling power . i want bills to be lowered . you want sell power build your own dam on your own river with your own money

[hobbyguy]

The Kemano closure was ALL about being the "party of Nooo". There was indeed a way to move forward with Kemano without endangering the salmon runs. It was all about the petty politics of the NDP grievance pandering. Have you not noticed that former NDP strongholds like Skeena have "wised up" and don't go NDP anymore?

But that is immaterial except that the NDP in their usual injudicious and cockamamy fashion attack the goose that lays the golden egg.

There is no question that site C will benefit BC:

1. The World Bank shows that on average large scale hydro projects generate an overall economic ROI of 14%. That makes the financing costs of the investment look small.
2. Worldwide jurisdictions show that large scale hydro has the lowest LCOE of any renewable source.
3. MIT studies show that large scale hydro has the lowest environmental cost of any renewable source.
4. Large scale hydro is the ONLY synchronous renewable source - thus avoiding the high cost grid stability traps that other jurisdictions (e.g. California, South Australia) have fallen into.
5. Any projections by any credible futurist shows that we will need much more electrical energy in the future.
6. As I have detailed before, BC Hydro's rates are among the lowest in the world, and yet BC Hydro can still generate profits - by being synchronous generation - to help pay for social programs.

As far as Horgan having the ability to analyze such a complex subject - well, his position in the industry was essentially marketing and lobbying. (It was is only real world job, and for a short time.) I do notice that Horgan has waffled and squirmed and not really said that he wants to kill site C, just to "review it". That leads me to think that Horgan himself realizes that it is good project, and he is just trying to tamp down the People within the NDP base.

Seen that movie before. The NDP will kill site C, cost the taxpayers a bundle for nothing, and then down the road we in BC will fall into the same non synchronous cost trap that California, Denmark, South Australia, Germany et al have. What makes that worse is that the lack of grid stability caused by not having synchronous power is driving industries either out of business or to places like China.

It all boils down to stepping back from the whole issue, taking a pragmatic long term view. The NDP are NOT interested in that, which stands to reason, as the die hard unionist viewpoint is almost always short term "we want" and "we don't like" without thinking about the long term.

If you step back, and take a long term pragmatic view - that is fact based, no emotion, no feldergarb, then BC Hydro is on the right track for so many reasons.

But the NDP powerlust just couldn't stand it that there were some nimby folks that might vote for them if they took an irrational position and some windy-solar dreamers that would follow along. Crass political pandering that actually makes no sense by the NDP - imagine that!

It really comes down to what is best for society as a whole - sorry nimbys - and rational policy - sorry windy-solar dreamers.

[Urban Cowboy]

i dont want hydro sellling power . i want bills to be lowered . you want sell power build your own dam on your own river with your own money

Same right back at you with your irrational power bill freedom solar dream!

ETA: By the way is there a place with lower power bills than what we have?

You might want to take a look at this data to give you a bit of a clue as to where power prices are at, whilst whining about wanting lower bills. http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/elec ... world.html

Note that Canada is only bested by Sweden, and that just barely, not to mention Canada is lumped together as a whole, whereas we know that in BC we have the lowest power rates in Canada, hence they are already as cheap as they are going to get.

Imagine, the cheapest rates on the planet, and yet our hydro still generates revenue to pay for crucial services such as health care.

You might also note where Germany ranks with their solar, and be thankful you don't live in Italy.

[rustled]

i dont want hydro sellling power . i want bills to be lowered . you want sell power build your own dam on your own river with your own money

Same right back at you with your irrational power bill freedom solar dream!

Wonder if she wants all the things the money from hydro helps pay for. Education, health care, social programs, "ect. ect".