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British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby Old Techie » Jan 1st, 2018, 12:50 pm

The Green Barbarian wrote:
Queen K wrote:GB, I'd never disagree with what you wrote ^^. But Not everyone is going for stupid or useless degrees, I'd never recommend those.

I'm saying that when the truck driver's job ends, they have something to fall back on.


Yup I hear you QK. I think it's important to get educated. Just go in with your eyes open as to what you are getting with your degree. Don't expect that college degree (whatever it is you get) = job after you graduate. Think about that before you go out and get mired in student loans, or force your poor parents to put off their retirement for 10 more years because they pay for your degree, and all you reward them with is some idiotic and useless degree that shouldn't have been offered in the first place, because "it's your passion". Good grief. Grow up!!!


It is important to get educated, however our system that's in place has been putting too much emphasis on higher education (university) for eons now, and that simply isn't for everyone, plus I honestly feel that to a point it's self serving in ensuring jobs for the teaching sector, be they justified or not.

Those opting to go the apprenticeship route also gain valuable education, but they do it without the same burden of student loans, plus I believe an added benefit is that as they work in such a program, should it turn out that they find that the work simply isn't for them, it's a lot less devastating than spending a fortune in university to get a degree in something that's either useless, or you find you can't stand the profession.

The apprenticeship route is also better geared toward weeding out those completely unsuited for the profession chosen.

Yet others choose the path of working themselves up in an organization, beginning for example possibly flipping burgers at McD's but ending up working at corporate headquarters, such a route perhaps not providing them with a degree, but nonetheless a valuable education. One can't help but wonder how many who make fun of burger flippers, are themselves unemployed, while the burger flipper ends up owning a franchise? :biggrin:

My point being that there are many different roads to success, and simply possessing a degree, along with associated debt, is not a guarantee that it will lead you there.
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig."
- Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby hobbyguy » Jan 1st, 2018, 3:57 pm

I would have less of complaint about our higher education system if they did something useful, like making math mandatory for all bachelor's degrees. Math is a foundation for critical thinking and analysis, and if such nonsense degrees as political "science" required math, then we might have a shot at some politicians who could meet the basic skill set required for governance.

SFU alone gets $222 million of taxpayer money. https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/education/post-secondary-education/institution-resources-administration/budget-letters/17-18/sfu.pdf
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby d0nb » Jan 3rd, 2018, 6:04 pm

In light of the NDP plan to do so, Castanet's 'question of the day' asks: Should BC Pharmacare cover free abortion pills?

Someone must have been in a hurry today. :smt045
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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby alanjh595 » Jan 3rd, 2018, 6:08 pm

d0nb wrote:In light of the NDP plan to do so, Castanet's 'question of the day' asks: Should BC Pharmacare cover free abortion pills?

Someone must have been in a hurry today. :smt045


More likely broke, and hungover from NYE.

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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby flamingfingers » Jan 3rd, 2018, 6:17 pm

^^Had a look at that poll and while it is closing the barn door after the horses have fled, I am rather bemused at the 20% of respondents who answered the funding issue "only in some cases.."

Who are they to judge and on what basis?

-Income?
- Lifestyle?
- Parental suitability?
- Race?
- Religion?

Just sayin'....
Why do people who fancy themselves "fiscal conservatives" not scream at hidden debt accumulated in the past dozen years? Or, do they only object to spending on social programs?
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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby d0nb » Jan 3rd, 2018, 6:32 pm

Absence of informed consent is what comes to mind for most people.
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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby flamingfingers » Jan 3rd, 2018, 6:36 pm

d0nb wrote:Absence of informed consent is what comes to mind for most people.


I don't understand what you are driving at. The abortion pill would have to be prescribed by a physician who would have informed the patient of any possible side effects and/or the choices available. Where would the absence of informed consent enter into the equation?
Why do people who fancy themselves "fiscal conservatives" not scream at hidden debt accumulated in the past dozen years? Or, do they only object to spending on social programs?
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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby d0nb » Jan 3rd, 2018, 8:10 pm

Did the pregnancy result from a choice that was freely made by an informed adult.

As a libertarian, I like to stay out of the lives of others. :smt045
Unnamed sources say that in private, you are a racist, homophobic, misogynistic monster. Dick Durban took time out from lying about other things to confirm it.

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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby Tony » Jan 4th, 2018, 2:40 pm

d0nb wrote:In light of the NDP plan to do so, Castanet's 'question of the day' asks: Should BC Pharmacare cover free abortion pills?

Someone must have been in a hurry today. :smt045


Don't think that's a typo. Somewhere along the way, SOMEBODY has to pay for the pills. Since our illustrious current Government sees fit to throw "free" stuff at everyone, this would just fall into the category of that. MSP would have to pay for the pills in order to give them away for "free", which means that EVERYONE would have to pay for the pills through taxes or premiums. What is wrong with user pay????

The scary thing is that come budget time, they will suddenly realize that eliminating the tolls, cutting MSP fees in half, halting Site C for months, free abortion pills all come with a cost, $10 a day daycare and a higher minimum wage (that one I can give a pass on) that we, as citizens of this great Province, have to cover. They didn't realize it in 16 years in power, and they don't realize it now, that sh*t doesn't come for free, and money doesn't grow on trees.

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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby Verum » Jan 4th, 2018, 4:38 pm

d0nb wrote:Did the pregnancy result from a choice that was freely made by an informed adult.

As a libertarian, I like to stay out of the lives of others. :smt045

I agree that there is no reason for you or I to interfere in the decisions made by women who wish to terminate a foetus. And since these pills will make it easier and cheaper than other methods, it reduces our tax burden through fewer surgical abortions which we ultimately pay for. It's almost certainly a win for everyone involved.
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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby Verum » Jan 4th, 2018, 4:46 pm

Tony wrote:
d0nb wrote:In light of the NDP plan to do so, Castanet's 'question of the day' asks: Should BC Pharmacare cover free abortion pills?

Someone must have been in a hurry today. :smt045


Don't think that's a typo. Somewhere along the way, SOMEBODY has to pay for the pills. Since our illustrious current Government sees fit to throw "free" stuff at everyone, this would just fall into the category of that. MSP would have to pay for the pills in order to give them away for "free", which means that EVERYONE would have to pay for the pills through taxes or premiums. What is wrong with user pay???? Yes, everyone pays, but it may reduce our total tax burden as we have fewer surgical procedures to pay for. Sometimes spending a little money can save you spending more money.

The scary thing is that come budget time, they will suddenly realize that eliminating the tolls, cutting MSP fees in half, halting Site C for months, free abortion pills all come with a cost, $10 a day daycare and a higher minimum wage (that one I can give a pass on) that we, as citizens of this great Province, have to cover. They didn't realize it in 16 years in power, and they don't realize it now, that sh*t doesn't come for free, and money doesn't grow on trees. It's true that the NDP have made some questionable choices when it comes to tax burden, much as their predecessors did too. I think that all involved understand that there is no free lunch, the question is if the result will be a more efficient system or not. If it is, the extra taxes will be more than offset by savings and/or additional income. I suspect that some of their steps will be positive and some will be negative. Since the MSP and minimum wage changes are actually from the previous government, I don't we can blame/congratulate the NDP for those, but I do genuinely think that abortion pills provided without cost will actually save us money in the long run.
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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby hobbyguy » Jan 4th, 2018, 5:11 pm

^^ I have no problem with the abortion pill being made available free.

*removed*
Last edited by ferri on Jan 5th, 2018, 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Off Topic
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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby Tony » Jan 5th, 2018, 8:47 am

Verum wrote:
Tony wrote:Don't think that's a typo. Somewhere along the way, SOMEBODY has to pay for the pills. Since our illustrious current Government sees fit to throw "free" stuff at everyone, this would just fall into the category of that. MSP would have to pay for the pills in order to give them away for "free", which means that EVERYONE would have to pay for the pills through taxes or premiums. What is wrong with user pay???? Yes, everyone pays, but it may reduce our total tax burden as we have fewer surgical procedures to pay for. Sometimes spending a little money can save you spending more money.

The scary thing is that come budget time, they will suddenly realize that eliminating the tolls, cutting MSP fees in half, halting Site C for months, free abortion pills all come with a cost, $10 a day daycare and a higher minimum wage (that one I can give a pass on) that we, as citizens of this great Province, have to cover. They didn't realize it in 16 years in power, and they don't realize it now, that sh*t doesn't come for free, and money doesn't grow on trees. It's true that the NDP have made some questionable choices when it comes to tax burden, much as their predecessors did too. I think that all involved understand that there is no free lunch, the question is if the result will be a more efficient system or not. If it is, the extra taxes will be more than offset by savings and/or additional income. I suspect that some of their steps will be positive and some will be negative. Since the MSP and minimum wage changes are actually from the previous government, I don't we can blame/congratulate the NDP for those, but I do genuinely think that abortion pills provided without cost will actually save us money in the long run.


I'm not sure why I need to pay for somebody else's bad judgement. If little Susie accidentally gets pregnant, why isn't it her and the male partner in this, responsibility to pay for the pill? Why do you and I have to pay for their bad judgement?

I will totally agree that the previous Government started the wheels in motion to eliminate the MSP premiums and raise the minimum wage. These are, for the record, things that I tend to agree with. What I'm saying is that when you do things like this, the money still has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is the taxpayer's pockets. It will now be a hidden tax instead of a out loud premium.

As a side note, Ontario raised it's minimum wage to $15.00 yesterday. Several Tim Horton's laid off several employees due to this, and have moved some others to more hours, and in some cases have just cut their staff so service will suffer in those stores. That's a bad backlash, and personally, I think a knee jerk reaction, but that's a whole different forum.
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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby hobbyguy » Jan 5th, 2018, 10:49 am

^^ You will pay more if you don't. If a person is in that unfortunate position of having an unwanted pregnancy, then they are most likely not going to be in a position to raise that child properly, and/or fulfill their potential, which in the end costs us an awful lot more.

It is not for us to judge anyone for their reasons for wanting to terminate a pregnancy. It is more complicated than I, as a male, can even imagine.

We can, however, judge that the results of an unwanted pregnancy carried to term are, on balance negative.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby The Green Barbarian » Jan 5th, 2018, 11:13 am

*removed*
Last edited by ferri on Jan 5th, 2018, 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Response to removed post.
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