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British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby rustled » Sep 13th, 2017, 10:20 am

Bit of cautious optimism here:
The update earned muted support from the business community for prudent forecasting, but analysts will be watching the next budget for changes that could affect the province's credit rating.

"From a credit perspective, we'll have to see how much more program spending is coming, and weigh that against a backdrop of thin surpluses and as-good-as-it-gets external economic conditions," wrote Robert Kavcic, senior economist for BMO Capital Markets.

Ms. James said the details of how the carbon tax revenue will be allocated under the new plan are still being worked out. She said her government will appoint a new climate action team to make recommendations.

Oh, goodie! Another committee!

We wait with bated breath to see who gets to play on this one.

JK. Look at the minister. I've already gone from cautious optimism to resigned cynicism. Again. Sigh.

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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby Cactusflower » Sep 13th, 2017, 7:49 pm

hobbyguy wrote:Oh my, Andrew seems to be having some buyer's remorse: https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/bc-ndps-election-promises-are-irrelevant-green-leader-says/article36242097/

"Their election commitments are irrelevant right now," Mr. Weaver said in an interview on Tuesday.

"They did not win the election. They have an agreement [with the Greens] that has the confidence in the House."

SNIP


This is the best example of 'taking things out of context' that I've seen in a long while. Weaver was quoted as saying much more than that. He was speaking about $10 a day childcare, and I agree with him in that day-care cannot be a 'one size fits all issue. That's why minority governments are very often successful. They get to share ideas and compromise on the final outcome.

Do you remember when Trudeau Sr. led a minority government with David Lewis? Some good legislation came out of that affiliation.

Oh, and I'm sorry, HG. It wasn't you who made that crack about uneducated people. My bad.
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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby hobbyguy » Sep 13th, 2017, 7:59 pm

Read between the lines. Andrew knows failed policy when he sees it. The $10/day daycare idea came out of Quebec - where it has failed miserably.

Notice the "They didn't win the election". Just how long do you think the NDP ideologues will put up with that. It is also a quiet message to Horgan and his band of fools.

It also says that the rest of the NDP so called platform is "on notice".
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby maryjane48 » Sep 13th, 2017, 8:06 pm

hobbyguy wrote:Read between the lines. Andrew knows failed policy when he sees it. The $10/day daycare idea came out of Quebec - where it has failed miserably.

Notice the "They didn't win the election". Just how long do you think the NDP ideologues will put up with that. It is also a quiet message to Horgan and his band of fools.

It also says that the rest of the NDP so called platform is "on notice".

what it means with out the neo con spin is that the greens have other priorities and it should be a canada wide laws. trying to do it province by province is a band aid. lets get them carbon taxes up so bc can meet its goals :130:
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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby Cactusflower » Sep 13th, 2017, 8:09 pm

You go ahead and read between the lines, HG. I prefer to read the text, the whole text, and nothing but the text. That way, I don't run the risk of being disappointed when the insertion of my own perception of the text turns out to be wrong.

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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby hobbyguy » Sep 13th, 2017, 10:09 pm

mj - you forget that the carbon tax is going to be especially onerous for folks on fixed incomes, and especially onerous for rural, suburban, small town and even small city folks.

It is regressive, and discriminatory, but was being made reasonably (not entirely) progressive by the rebates going out.

The NDP have abandoned the revenue neutrality aspects (imperfect as they were) and are simply making the carbon tax a regressive sales tax that hits non urban and low income folks the hardest. Rural and remote communities are much more heavily dependent on petroleum products for their day to day lives, everything from groceries being shipped in to fuel for fishing boats with which they make their living. I suspect the increased carbon tax will be especially hard on remote indigenous communities, many of whom have no choice but to boat, fly or drive considerable distances to see a doctor, buy provisions, etc. Don't forget that when they get to, say, Fort St. James, the price for their provisions will have risen to reflect the increased transport costs. Given that a fairly large proportion of indigenous folks live in rural or remote locations, they will feel the carbon tax increase the worst of all as sub group of society.

Such would not be the case if any attempt at revenue neutrality was maintained. There would be impacts, but at a much lower level.

Don't forget that $3.50 on a tank of gas doesn't mean much to someone like me, but it adds up for the working poor, especially when they see their heating has also gone up - and their groceries and everything else they buy going up at the same time.

So I see this "carbon tax" without an attempt at revenue neutrality as very regressive and discriminatory cash grab, and the NDP as being entirely incompetent when they pretend to represent "the little guy" and then screw them this way. Especially as I do not feel that the funds raised will be spent in a productive and useful way for "the little guy".

The carbon tax will be very hard on suburban commuters in the lower mainland, the very people the NDP promised to help by getting rid of the bridge tolls, which now has the asterisk of mobility pricing and/or more bridge tolls added onto it. By the time the NDP 3 stooges mayors are done, and the suburban voters of Surrey et al pay the now not revenue neutral carbon tax, they would have been better off to just live with the tolls.

In the end, the NDP voters are not going to get their $10/day daycare, they aren't going to see a tax decrease from elimination of MSP premiums, nor any relief from high housing costs (in fact housing costs will go up due to the carbon tax), not the $15/hr minimum wage until it should be $17. . Yes, welfare and disability recipients will get an extra $50/month. BC Hydro rates will not be frozen, and ICBC rates are going up at exactly the the 42% rate that the NDP said they would stop.

So who "wins" - the BCTF lunatics. The kids in schools won't win because school districts are being forced to scrape the bottom of the barrel across Canada to find any teachers, and the quality of instruction will decline. Once those "bottom of the barrel" teachers are hired - they don't get fired - and the quality problem will be with us for a very long time.

The rest of us? Sigh... we get to watch the 1990s NDP incompetents circle the province down the drain again.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby Cactusflower » Sep 13th, 2017, 10:29 pm

Oh, the drama! Oh, the humanity! One would think another Hindenberg had just exploded. Enough of the doom and gloom forecasts. The glass is still half full, the sky isn't falling. We have a change in government, a change for the better. Get used to it.
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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby hobbyguy » Sep 13th, 2017, 11:10 pm

Good governance requires good and well thought out policy. Not cheerleaders that overlook obvious shortcomings.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby Merry » Sep 14th, 2017, 12:06 am

hobbyguy wrote:the carbon tax is going to be especially onerous for folks on fixed incomes, and especially onerous for rural, suburban, small town and even small city folks.

It is regressive, and discriminatory, but was being made reasonably (not entirely) progressive by the rebates going out.

The NDP have abandoned the revenue neutrality aspects (imperfect as they were) and are simply making the carbon tax a regressive sales tax that hits non urban and low income folks the hardest. Rural and remote communities are much more heavily dependent on petroleum products for their day to day lives, everything from groceries being shipped in to fuel for fishing boats with which they make their living. I suspect the increased carbon tax will be especially hard on remote indigenous communities, many of whom have no choice but to boat, fly or drive considerable distances to see a doctor, buy provisions, etc. Don't forget that when they get to, say, Fort St. James, the price for their provisions will have risen to reflect the increased transport costs. Given that a fairly large proportion of indigenous folks live in rural or remote locations, they will feel the carbon tax increase the worst of all as sub group of society.

Such would not be the case if any attempt at revenue neutrality was maintained. There would be impacts, but at a much lower level.

Don't forget that $3.50 on a tank of gas doesn't mean much to someone like me, but it adds up for the working poor, especially when they see their heating has also gone up - and their groceries and everything else they buy going up at the same time.

So I see this "carbon tax" without an attempt at revenue neutrality as very regressive and discriminatory cash grab, and the NDP as being entirely incompetent when they pretend to represent "the little guy" and then screw them this way. Especially as I do not feel that the funds raised will be spent in a productive and useful way for "the little guy".

The carbon tax will be very hard on suburban commuters in the lower mainland, the very people the NDP promised to help by getting rid of the bridge tolls,

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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby Urbane » Sep 14th, 2017, 7:45 am

    Cactusflower wrote:Oh, the drama! Oh, the humanity! One would think another Hindenberg had just exploded. Enough of the doom and gloom forecasts. The glass is still half full, the sky isn't falling. We have a change in government, a change for the better. Get used to it.
Oh, the irony!!! With the strongest economy in Canada, the best education outcomes in Canada, and some of the best health outcomes in Canada, we were still told by some of the NDP'ers on here that the proverbial glass was almost empty because the premier smiled too much, dressed "to attract gullible male voters," and flew back and forth to her riding. Oh, the drama! Oh, the humanity!

Now when there are real problems with this new government we're asked to overlook them and to concentrate on the proverbial glass being half full! No thanks. I wish the Horgan government well but he and and his colleagues haven't gotten off to a good start. They deserve criticism where criticism is due. Just because they inherited an enviable situation from the Liberals is no reason to let the new government off the hook for their failings.

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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby The Green Barbarian » Sep 14th, 2017, 7:56 am

Cactusflower wrote:We have a change in government, a change for the better. .


When did this happen? A change for the better? Was the NDP thrown out? I missed it. Been a little busy lately.
Not sure why I bother with a signature as it seems to just randomly disappear on a regular basis. Especially if it offends liberal snowflakes.

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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby Cactusflower » Sep 14th, 2017, 8:23 am

I agree that the carbon tax should be revenue neutral and I have written to the Horgan government to express my concerns. (No point in writing to my MLA, Dan Ashton, for obvious reasons.)

What have you done to express your dissatisfaction with this government decision........besides preaching to the choir here on Castanet, that is?
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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby Old Techie » Sep 14th, 2017, 1:35 pm

Urbane wrote:
    Cactusflower wrote:Oh, the drama! Oh, the humanity! One would think another Hindenberg had just exploded. Enough of the doom and gloom forecasts. The glass is still half full, the sky isn't falling. We have a change in government, a change for the better. Get used to it.
Oh, the irony!!! With the strongest economy in Canada, the best education outcomes in Canada, and some of the best health outcomes in Canada, we were still told by some of the NDP'ers on here that the proverbial glass was almost empty because the premier smiled too much, dressed "to attract gullible male voters," and flew back and forth to her riding. Oh, the drama! Oh, the humanity!

Now when there are real problems with this new government we're asked to overlook them and to concentrate on the proverbial glass being half full! No thanks. I wish the Horgan government well but he and and his colleagues haven't gotten off to a good start. They deserve criticism where criticism is due. Just because they inherited an enviable situation from the Liberals is no reason to let the new government off the hook for their failings.


Very well stated. :up:
"Fools multiply when wise men are silent!" - Nelson Mandela

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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby The Green Barbarian » Sep 14th, 2017, 1:42 pm

Urbane wrote:Oh, the irony!!! With the strongest economy in Canada, the best education outcomes in Canada, and some of the best health outcomes in Canada, we were still told by some of the NDP'ers on here that the proverbial glass was almost empty because the premier smiled too much, dressed "to attract gullible male voters," and flew back and forth to her riding. Oh, the drama! Oh, the humanity!

Now when there are real problems with this new government we're asked to overlook them and to concentrate on the proverbial glass being half full! No thanks. I wish the Horgan government well but he and and his colleagues haven't gotten off to a good start. They deserve criticism where criticism is due. Just because they inherited an enviable situation from the Liberals is no reason to let the new government off the hook for their failings.


Image
Not sure why I bother with a signature as it seems to just randomly disappear on a regular basis. Especially if it offends liberal snowflakes.

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Re: British Columbia's NDP Government: 2017

Postby Cactusflower » Sep 14th, 2017, 4:38 pm

What the heck is that picture of Obama supposed to depict? But back to the topic, did anyone watch Q.P. today? All the opposition had to gripe about was the Gordon Wilson lawsuit, somebody attending a party that some other BC politicians (NDP and BCLP) also attended, and the NDP's plans to scrap the 10-lane Massey bridge and replacing it with something more sensible and affordable.

If the opposition can't find anything better to throw at the government, people are going to get bored and stop paying attention to what goes on in the Legislature. The new government needs constructive criticism, not schoolyard taunts.
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