NDP will not stall transmountain

[Smurf]

I can agree with them that we need to move towards using less fossil fuels and I also agree with you that we are moving steadily in that direction. There are many companies out there that are working hard at it, even oil companies, because they know it is coming and they want to be part of it. However till that time comes we have to realize that petroleum is one of the things that keeps the world going. Going not only by it's many uses but also by the money it creates in so many areas. Much of that money is actually in one way or another going into development of products and materials to actually replace itself. Car manufacturers are going quickly into developing electric cars using the profits made from fossil fuel cars.

What has been proven often on these threads is that none of developments are truly ready for the big time yet and many are a long way off. Even if they find a way to make them work it is going to be on such a large scale it will take years to develop. It''s nice to say get rid of fossil fuel cars by XXXX but is that not putting the cart before the horse. Is there the technology out there to set up an actual working infrastructure to fuel the new cars. Look at California, Australia, Germany and others that have jumped in too fast and are now in trouble. We have to stop the headlong rush and start to work sensibly. We will get a lot further, a lot faster, doing the job properly in the first place. In the mean time and for some time petroleum, fossil fuels will be one of the main things fuelling these changes.

[The Green Barbarian]

Nuclear and hydro are the waves of the future. All other forms of energy are not even worth discussing, other than solar power in certain desert environments.

[hobbyguy]

All forms of energy production have their correct context.

What the ideologues, who can not seem to understand simple concepts like energy density, synchronous generation, risk analysis, cost analysis, wind up doing is latch onto something somebody else said was a "cure all" and what somebody else said was "bad, very bad" and be happy to not really understand the issues - so long as they can get a "feel good" out of it.

Snake oil salesmen have been around forever.

In many cases, it is just falling for advertising shtick and marketing ploys by those who have a vested interest, not the least of which in this context are the "environmental groups" that have been co-opted by disingenuous charlatans who see it as a way to line their pockets and advance political careers.

That is not to disparage people who believe in protecting the environment. I am there with them on that one as a conservationist.

We do need to transition away from fossil fuels and deal with the long term. Oddly enough, the country that is leading the world right now in actually DOING something about those issues is China. Yup, the Chinese are big time polluters - but now that they have committed to DOING something about it, they are marching ahead at a rapid pace.

So what are China DOING?

1. They have been are continuing to develop as much hydroelectricity as possible.
2. They tried the windy-solar stuff, but it failed in most contexts, so they have shifted emphasis
3. They are building safe GEN III nuclear reactors at a very strong pace, including a specialized "pod" that will replace the heat source (coal) in coal fired generating plants (first one due for completion next year - hope it is successful),
4. They have made it very difficult to buy gasoline/diesel vehicles if you live in an urban area. Low cost electric cars, low cost because they won't reach high speeds and so don't need as much fancy safety technology, are easy to buy. $5,000 for a nicely serviceable electric car with practical urban range.
5. They promote LNG/CNG as the fuel for commercial trucks - replacing stinky diesel.

Those are just a few highlights of what they are actually DOING.

What are we doing? Really DOING to advance? Mostly we protest (a poor substitute for DOING), study, discuss but actually DO nothing. The protestors won't allow any advancements except the failing windy-solar stuff which in most contexts is an outright failure (one size fits all solutions are always poor or failures).

And really, build a GEN III nuclear plant? Try that in North America. The knee jerk protestors would be out in droves! Yet if you look at the true costs of wind and solar, GEN III nuclear is better for the environment and lower cost for consumers.

We see that in the protests of the TMX. The tanker issue has been dealt with, all the empirical data and modernized systems that deal with the spill threat by eliminating spills have been extremely successful and have eliminated significant spills in first world countries this century. The route is an existing one - so the environmental disruption is? Near zero. A new pipeline designed for dilbit is far superior than using one that was built in the 1950s for conventional crude.

So when you look at the TMX, as opposed to the NGP - which was a dumb idea - it has lots of benefits and no downside.

So why are the BC NDP opposing the TMX? Because the NDP used a coalition with the "environmental movement" (which has been co-opted) as means to mine for votes. The BC NDP are exploiting the fashion of environmentalism just as many "environmental groups" and "environmental bloggers" do to get campaign finances and votes.

I find that outrageous. Good governance must be based on facts and communicating facts to voters. There is no evidence of that here.

I also find it outrageous that the Heyman plan is to exploit First Nations by "using" them as a "tool" to advance a position that is not based on scientific fact.

[The Green Barbarian]

I also find it outrageous that the Heyman plan is to exploit First Nations by "using" them as a "tool" to advance a position that is not based on scientific fact.

If this is true, and a matter of public record, the NDP must resign immediately. No Canadian should sit idley by and watch our proud First Nations peoples being exploited in the name of evil by horrible human beings in the NDP. This is it, the NDP is done. There is no way that Dr. Weaver, a man of principle, would ever allow or be part of a government so dedicated to the fomation of pure evil like this. No way.

[lasnomadas]

I find it outrageous that some pipeline pushers refuse to admit that tar sands bitumen is not necessary anymore. Canada has plenty of conventional oil for domestic use, and now that we're moving into the 21st century, government-wise, there should be no need to export bitumen at fire-sale prices just for a few short-term construction jobs and for multinational oil corporations to keep their shareholders happy.