Replacing West Kelowna MLA Christy

Re: Replacing West Kelowna MLA Christy

Postby Urbane » Feb 1st, 2018, 1:22 pm

    Verum wrote:I get the feeling that you missed the all candidate forum. Cook didn't particularly go after Stewart or the Liberals and actually ran a fairly clean discussion. Stewart was very weak, though similarly clean in treatment of the NDP.

    I was expecting far more from Stewart and Cook, but both were just not good at all.
Well, one NDP'er on here said that Stewart was an outstanding MLA. She said that he was hardworking and got the job done. How about that? That's about the only thing she's ever said positive about any Liberal and it was about Ben Stewart. I've met Ben once and found him to be a very genuine fellow. I like him personally and given the alternatives there's no question that my wife and I will vote for him.
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Re: Replacing West Kelowna MLA Christy

Postby Verum » Feb 1st, 2018, 1:36 pm

Urbane wrote:
    Verum wrote:I get the feeling that you missed the all candidate forum. Cook didn't particularly go after Stewart or the Liberals and actually ran a fairly clean discussion. Stewart was very weak, though similarly clean in treatment of the NDP.

    I was expecting far more from Stewart and Cook, but both were just not good at all.
Well, one NDP'er on here said that Stewart was an outstanding MLA. She said that he was hardworking and got the job done. How about that? That's about the only thing she's ever said positive about any Liberal and it was about Ben Stewart. I've met Ben once and found him to be a very genuine fellow. I like him personally and given the alternatives there's no question that my wife and I will vote for him.

Fair enough. I've only had a few encounters and most at arms length. He never made a good impression and always seemed a little dull. I wouldn't say unintelligent, but just that there was less going on between his ears than I would like. Always seemed a bit of a political pawn rather than a real force to be reckoned with. Perfect middle management material. Also, I personally don't consider someone who abandons their post to be doing an excellent job, but that's just me.

Let me be clear, I am no fan of Cook and less so after last night. I would even consider Thompson if I felt he had a real chance, despite having no time for his party.
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Re: Replacing West Kelowna MLA Christy

Postby Queen K » Feb 1st, 2018, 1:37 pm

What I'm getting from your post Verum, it that there are no real choices in this by-election.
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Re: Replacing West Kelowna MLA Christy

Postby Urbane » Feb 1st, 2018, 1:50 pm

    Verum wrote:Fair enough. I've only had a few encounters and most at arms length. He never made a good impression and always seemed a little dull. I wouldn't say unintelligent, but just that there was less going on between his ears than I would like. Always seemed a bit of a political pawn rather than a real force to be reckoned with. Perfect middle management material. Also, I personally don't consider someone who abandons their post to be doing an excellent job, but that's just me.

    Let me be clear, I am no fan of Cook and less so after last night. I would even consider Thompson if I felt he had a real chance, despite having no time for his party.

You might remember that when Clark assumed the leadership of the Liberal Party NDP'ers said that she had a moral duty to call a provincial election. If no one had stepped down for Clark and she had been forced to resign with a new leader chosen, they would have demanded the same thing. Someone had to step down to allow Clark to run in a by-election and it happened to be Stewart. If you don't see that you truly don't understand how the system works.

If it had been an NDP premier in the same situation he or she would have done the same thing. So blaming Stewart for being willing to step down and do the honourable thing is completely unfair. And suggesting that he doesn't have a lot going on between his ears just shows your partisanship. He's a BC Liberal, not an NDP'er, so he's not as smart as you'd like. Yawn . . .
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Re: Replacing West Kelowna MLA Christy

Postby Verum » Feb 1st, 2018, 2:03 pm

Urbane wrote:
    Verum wrote:Fair enough. I've only had a few encounters and most at arms length. He never made a good impression and always seemed a little dull. I wouldn't say unintelligent, but just that there was less going on between his ears than I would like. Always seemed a bit of a political pawn rather than a real force to be reckoned with. Perfect middle management material. Also, I personally don't consider someone who abandons their post to be doing an excellent job, but that's just me.

    Let me be clear, I am no fan of Cook and less so after last night. I would even consider Thompson if I felt he had a real chance, despite having no time for his party.

You might remember that when Clark assumed the leadership of the Liberal Party NDP'ers said that she had a moral duty to call a provincial election. If no one had stepped down for Clark and she had been forced to resign with a new leader chosen, they would have demanded the same thing.Maybe they would have, but they wouldn't have gotten it if the Liberals had chosen a new leader, which would probably have kept them in power in the last election. If a representative fails to win their seat, their role in the government should be assumed by another. Someone had to step down to allow Clark to run in a by-election and it happened to be Stewart.Nobody had to step down because there didn't need to be a by-election. She could have been replaced as leader. He was elected to serve us, not to serve his party, but he chose his party and in particular his party's leader over his duty to his constituents. It's as simple as that. If you don't see that you truly don't understand how the system works.

If it had been an NDP premier in the same situation he or she would have done the same thing.Maybe, and I'd be saying the same thing. This is simple hypothetical whataboutery. So blaming Stewart for being willing to step down and do the honourable thing is completely unfair.We obviously have very different ideas as to what is honourable. And suggesting that he doesn't have a lot going on between his ears just shows your partisanship. He's a BC Liberal, not an NDP'er, so he's not as smart as you'd like.I'm not an NDP supporter and you should know that already. Secondly, it is up to him to earn my vote. If you had been at that all candidates forum I have little doubt that you would understand why I think he's not as smart or quick as I would like. Yawn . . .
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Re: Replacing West Kelowna MLA Christy

Postby Urbane » Feb 1st, 2018, 2:13 pm

^^ Blaming Stewart for stepping down and allowing Christy Clark to run in that 2013 by-election is ridiculous. You're entitled to your opinion though but I can assure you that voters will not hold his decision against him. Christy Clark had just won the election as leader of the Liberal Party and it was important that she stay on as leader. Good on Stewart for doing the honourable thing. He clearly wanted to be an MLA and sacrificed his own ambitions at that point. Anyway, here we are in 2018 with another by-election and I believe Stewart will win and I believe he deserves to win.
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Re: Replacing West Kelowna MLA Christy

Postby Verum » Feb 1st, 2018, 2:25 pm

Urbane wrote:^^ Blaming Stewart for stepping down and allowing Christy Clark to run in that 2013 by-election is ridiculous. You're entitled to your opinion though but I can assure you that voters will not hold his decision against him.Maybe, but it was definitely a sticking point at the all candidates forum. He got attacked on it repeatedly and never once defended his decision. Christy Clark had just won the election as leader of the Liberal Party and it was important that she stay on as leader.Important to whom? The people of Kelowna-West didn't pick her. Her leadership was important to the Liberals, and so he put his party first. Good on Stewart for doing the honourable thing. He clearly wanted to be an MLA and sacrificed his own ambitions at that point.I disagree. He clearly was more of a party man than an MLA. Party came first and I have no doubt that he still feels that way. I consider that a terrible character flaw in any MLA. Anyway, here we are in 2018 with another by-election and I believe Stewart will win and I believe he deserves to win.Yes, he will win, but certainly doesn't deserve to on the back of his performance last night. That honour goes to Thompson of the Conservatives.

We obviously have very different views on what is honourable. I think that an MLA's responsibility if first and foremost to their constituents, then BC, then Canada and maybe then their party. Clark was a bad choice for leader and her former constituents knew that. The Liberals should have picked someone new and gotten on with governing, with our chosen representative.
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Re: Replacing West Kelowna MLA Christy

Postby Cactusflower » Feb 1st, 2018, 3:01 pm

Urbane wrote:
    Verum wrote:I get the feeling that you missed the all candidate forum. Cook didn't particularly go after Stewart or the Liberals and actually ran a fairly clean discussion. Stewart was very weak, though similarly clean in treatment of the NDP.

    I was expecting far more from Stewart and Cook, but both were just not good at all.
Well, one NDP'er on here said that Stewart was an outstanding MLA. She said that he was hardworking and got the job done. How about that? That's about the only thing she's ever said positive about any Liberal and it was about Ben Stewart. I've met Ben once and found him to be a very genuine fellow. I like him personally and given the alternatives there's no question that my wife and I will vote for him.


Surprise, surprise. The BCLP could run a chimp in the Okanagan valley in any provincial election and it would win. I suppose one of their supporters will be able to tell me why Christy didn't bounce Foster in Vernon or Ashton in Penticton. Those two are the most useless MLAs in the province.
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Re: Replacing West Kelowna MLA Christy

Postby Urbane » Feb 1st, 2018, 3:10 pm

    Cactusflower wrote:Surprise, surprise. The BCLP could run a chimp in the Okanagan valley in any provincial election and it would win. I suppose one of their supporters will be able to tell me why Christy didn't bounce Foster in Vernon or Ashton in Penticton. Those two are the most useless MLAs in the province.
I realize we hear that sort of rhetoric from both sides, i.e. those who vote _________ are morons and would vote for a chimp but that rhetoric is really counterproductive. I will say this for those who tend to vote Liberal: They tend to see the weaknesses in the Liberal Party and call the Liberals out for their mistakes.

Contrast that with most NDP supporters, certainly the ones on here, who are generally fine with whatever Horgan does. Broken promises? No problem. Jobs for party insiders which was labeled as "corruption" when the Liberals did it? No problem. Anyway, I see Ben Stewart as an honourable man who will once again make an excellent MLA to represent us in Victoria.
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Re: Replacing West Kelowna MLA Christy

Postby Urbane » Feb 1st, 2018, 3:17 pm

    Verum wrote:We obviously have very different views on what is honourable. I think that an MLA's responsibility if first and foremost to their constituents, then BC, then Canada and maybe then their party. Clark was a bad choice for leader and her former constituents knew that. The Liberals should have picked someone new and gotten on with governing, with our chosen representative.

Just because YOU thought that Clark was a bad choice for leader doesn't negate the fact that she was leader of the party that won the election. Yes, some ridings went NDP including the riding that Eby won. Your point? Many people think that Horgan is a bad leader too. And Weaver. Duh! And off course an MLA's primary responsibility is to his/her constituents but stepping aside for Clark didn't hurt those constituents.

Having the premier as our MLA brought us some benefits so I don't know why you're pretending otherwise. It was a win-win by doing something for the greater good while also bringing benefits to our riding. Time to move back on topic here rather than going over and over 2013.
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Re: Replacing West Kelowna MLA Christy

Postby Cactusflower » Feb 1st, 2018, 3:22 pm

Urbane wrote:
    Cactusflower wrote:Surprise, surprise. The BCLP could run a chimp in the Okanagan valley in any provincial election and it would win. I suppose one of their supporters will be able to tell me why Christy didn't bounce Foster in Vernon or Ashton in Penticton. Those two are the most useless MLAs in the province.
I realize we hear that sort of rhetoric from both sides, i.e. those who vote _________ are morons and would vote for a chimp but that rhetoric is really counterproductive. I will say this for those who tend to vote Liberal: They tend to see the weaknesses in the Liberal Party and call the Liberals out for their mistakes.


Really? Could you name just a couple of the hundreds of mistakes the BC Liberals made over he past 16 years? (If you're having trouble remembering them, just google '100+ reasons the BC Liberals must go' and take your pick.)

Oh, and while you're at it, name one good thing Christy Clark did for West Kelowna. And don't even try to use those two boondoggles, Westside Road and the bridge that was put in the wrong location.
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Re: Replacing West Kelowna MLA Christy

Postby The Green Barbarian » Feb 1st, 2018, 5:01 pm

Urbane wrote:
If it had been an NDP premier in the same situation he or she would have done the same thing.


And in fact Urbane, an NDP leader did. Dave Barrett had to run in a by-election in 1976, after stupidly calling a snap election in 1975 and losing the election (of course, the NDP knows no other way) and also losing his seat in the process.
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Re: Replacing West Kelowna MLA Christy

Postby Urbane » Feb 1st, 2018, 5:23 pm

    Cactusflower wrote:
    Really? Could you name just a couple of the hundreds of mistakes the BC Liberals made over he past 16 years? (If you're having trouble remembering them, just google '100+ reasons the BC Liberals must go' and take your pick.)

    Oh, and while you're at it, name one good thing Christy Clark did for West Kelowna. And don't even try to use those two boondoggles, Westside Road and the bridge that was put in the wrong location.
Of course the Liberals made mistakes. You're thinking of NDP'ers who have trouble admitting to any mistakes by their party. You ask about good things: Westside Road improvements may not be important to you but they are important to many other people. The new bridge, which was promised by the NDP but not accomplished, is a huge improvement over the old one. How about the improvements at KGH, the new medical school here, the second hydro source that's coming to the westside of the lake, plus many other infrastructure projects?? Not important to you either I guess. We'll see what the voters think on February 14th:)
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Re: Replacing West Kelowna MLA Christy

Postby The Green Barbarian » Feb 1st, 2018, 5:24 pm

Cactusflower wrote:
Surprise, surprise. The BCLP could run a chimp in the Okanagan valley in any provincial election and it would win.


and in the riding of Vancouver Kingsway, the NDP have run a polished turd since 2005 and have won every time. So what does that prove?

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Re: Replacing West Kelowna MLA Christy

Postby The Green Barbarian » Feb 1st, 2018, 5:27 pm

Cactusflower wrote: I suppose one of their supporters will be able to tell me why Christy didn't bounce Foster in Vernon or Ashton in Penticton. Those two are the most useless MLAs in the province.


and yet Claire Trevena and Lana Popham couldn't out-think a tomato and would be out-foxed by a house-plant, so calling them useless would be an insult to useless people.
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