Transportation of petroleum products

[GordonH]

what makes you think bc cant ban the rail truck transport of dilbit in bc ? why are you for something that dangerous ? do you not care about your fellow bcer ?

Alberta has product that they need to go to market, that will happen either by pipeline or by rail.
So you want BC not only take on Feds but also CN rail.

[maryjane48]

who owns cn rail ? whats cn rail done for bc besides spilling stuff on our land ? albetra can build more refinerys and then i have no problems with the finished products being shipped or piped around. dilbit never

[lesliepaul]

[

quote="maryjane48"]who owns cn rail ? whats cn rail done for bc besides spilling stuff on our land ?

Employment to THOUSANDS plus spinoffs, MILLIONS in taxes plus spinoffs, hauled goods produced out of B.C. and hauled much of what you own to be available to you........even though you will not believe it. CN AND CPR both have been and are a lifeline to economic success in B.C.

THAT'S ALL!

[maryjane48]

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/b ... mobile#_=_

[seewood]

Employment to THOUSANDS plus spinoffs, MILLIONS in taxes plus spinoffs, hauled goods produced out of B.C. and hauled much of what you own to be available to you........even though you will not believe it. CN AND CPR both have been and are a lifeline to economic success in B.C.THAT'S ALL!

Sorry, that is not all. Both provide dividends from those nasty profits to the unions pension funds....

[Smurf]

Probably to most if not all pension funds including OAS and CPP.

[LordEd]

[

quote="maryjane48"]who owns cn rail ? whats cn rail done for bc besides spilling stuff on our land ?

Employment to THOUSANDS plus spinoffs, MILLIONS in taxes plus spinoffs, hauled goods produced out of B.C. and hauled much of what you own to be available to you........even though you will not believe it. CN AND CPR both have been and are a lifeline to economic success in B.C.

THAT'S ALL!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7tvauOJMHo

[lesliepaul]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7tvauOJMHo[/quote]


Excellent........professionally and simply explained so that hopefully someone like Maryjane can see and understand the big picture. I will not partake in any betting to that though.

[Raven1]

In this day and age I would think more people would realize that pipelines are the least appealing way to go.

Bury it underground where no one has to see it but you miss the point......

I doubt there is more than a few of you aware of just how much bitumen is being transported currently by rail. Having spent the last 2 summers along the CP rail mainline, I've had the pleasure. At this point the cars are clearly marked and have to be as part of the risk factor. . If a train derails or there's some other sort of mishap you know by "car weight" more accurately how much has been lost and what is required during clean up and decontamination.

While I've never actually counted the cars there is at least 2 robot trains a day headed west (what happens after dark I don't know....I'm sleeping) carrying petroleum products. It's usually a mix of bitumen and refined product. ( a robot train is an extended length, with 2 engines at the front, one in the middle and at the end for maximum push and pull through the mountains; more cars can be transported this way as the engines in the middle and at the end are run remotely from the lead engines) Technology has allowed this because trains (no matter their cargo) used to be shortened for Mountain passage.

The sad thing about pipelines is nobody want the visual of those lines snaking their way across the country's landscape. But remember...what you can't see can hurt you, the environment and the livelihood of many many people.

I drive a car and am well aware of the want/need for petroleum products. But I also understand that most of what Alberta produces is consumed elsewhere outside of Canada. (Otherwise...why is it going to port)

[Smurf]

I think most realize that there is a lot of petroleum products moved by trains and trucks every day, that is why we want the kinder Morgan expansion completed. There is much more danger of a spill from a train or truck than from a pipeline. If you look at the history of pipelines in Canada they are extremely safe. Nothing is perfect but I believe they are by far our best option.

Here is some info from statistics Canada. I realize that this is not all bitumen but a lot of it is.

In celebration of the country's 150th birthday, Statistics Canada is presenting snapshots from our rich statistical history.

Pipelines have been used to transport crude oil and equivalent products in Canada for over 150 years. In 1862, Canada built one of the first oil pipelines in the world, connecting the Petrolia oilfields to nearby Sarnia, Ontario.

By 1947, oil pipelines were operating in Ontario, Quebec and Alberta. The 1950s marked the discovery of an abundant supply of crude oil in Western Canada and the expansion of the pipeline network across the country.

In 1958, Canadian pipelines transported over 44 million cubic metres of crude oil and equivalent products. By 2016, the volume had increased to over 330 million cubic metres distributed to Canadian refineries and exported to foreign markets. This is roughly equal to filling more than 1,000 supertankers (very large crude carriers).

Currently, there are over 46,000 kilometres of gathering and transmission pipelines in Canada that transport just under six million barrels of crude oil and equivalent products every day. Nearly four-fifths of pipelines are concentrated in Alberta and Saskatchewan, Canada's top petroleum-producing provinces.

Pipelines continue to be the primary mode of transporting large quantities of crude oil and petroleum products to export markets. In total, more than 9 out of every 10 barrels exported by Canada reach foreign markets through pipelines.

Looking at the figures in this report it is not hard to understand that there is a lot more bitumen shipped by pipelines than by rail. What you are seeing is only a tiny portion of what is actually shipped. A pipeline flowing steady will carry a tremendous amount more than any train. According to statistics Canada 90% of petroleum products are carried by pipelines. I did not find any actual statistics as to what percentage would be bitumen. Have you thought about how many trains it would take to carry those products. Remember also that rail and trucks are rolling stock with all the inherent dangers and problems from every side of the equation. There is no way in this world that any type of rolling stock can be as safe as a pipeline. I would feel much safer if those trains and trucks were off the roads and everything was shipped by pipeline.


EDIT TO ADD:

All we have to do is look at the 2013 Lac-Mégantic rail disaster, which killed 47 people when an oil train exploded in Quebec to realize the dangers of rail transport. They are so much more than from a pipeline.

[Smurf]

I have found some better information on Bitumen but will have to wait till later as I have to get ready to go out. Will get back to it.

[maryjane48]

https://www.desmog.ca/2017/08/28/search ... ction-jobs

[Cactusflower]

The pipeline is only part of the problem with this project, though. How many people are naive enough to think that the bitumen is only traveling as far as Burnaby? And then what? Do they think it's going to be refined in Burnaby and shipped to all the gas stations in B.C.? Heck, even most of the stuff coming down the original pipe is leaving the country. The tankers that are taking it to China, 7 times as many as at present, 7 times the risk of a catastrophic event somewhere in Burrard Inlet, the Salish Sea, or Juan de Fuca Strait, that's a good enough reason to stop the KM expansion, IMHO.

[Smurf]

You do realize that it is going to get here one way or another if production increases as predicted. That means if there is no pipeline it is rail or truck. Can you imagine how many more trains and trucks would be required to move all that extra product.
My choice is definitely pipeline.

[Cactusflower]

Why do you think it's going to get to the BC coast by any means of transport? If we can stop the pipeline we can stop the trucks and trains as well. This fight is far from over. Notley and Trudeau are going to have to be satisfied with KeystoneXL because Canadians know better than to think we can meet our climate change targets by expanding the tar sands output.