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ICBC a mess....

Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby Hassel99 » Sep 1st, 2017, 11:32 am

ninetyninepct wrote:Close friends in Lethbridge just bought a car identical to ours except for color. Insurance for virtually the same coverage is slightly more than half of what we pay ICBC. ICBC is a horribly expensive ripoff. Shut it down, open us up to free market and eventually get rid of an awful lot of Government workers. e would also save millions on the perpetual lawyers fees.



There are many other factors to consider.

Did you get the same liability limits? Road star or not? Loss of use coverage? Extra uninsured motorist protection?
Are driving records identical? Do Either of your have households have drivers with less tan 10 years driving experience?
Are the vehicles being operated in the same territory?


To say it's the same vehicle and the premium should be the same shows you don't understand the factors that determine premiums.


Stop using half information to build up the hysteria.

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Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby my5cents » Sep 1st, 2017, 3:34 pm

Hassel99 wrote:There are many other factors to consider.

Did you get the same liability limits? Road star or not? Loss of use coverage? Extra uninsured motorist protection?
Are driving records identical? Do Either of your have households have drivers with less tan 10 years driving experience?
Are the vehicles being operated in the same territory?


To say it's the same vehicle and the premium should be the same shows you don't understand the factors that determine premiums.


Stop using half information to build up the hysteria.


Not to mention it is VERY common in Alberta to not have glass coverage. Most vehicle have it in BC. Glass coverage is very expensive in AB.

Very hard to compare province to province for MANY reasons.
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Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby 00fxd » Oct 30th, 2017, 10:16 am

my5cents wrote:
Hassel99 wrote:There are many other factors to consider.

Did you get the same liability limits? Road star or not? Loss of use coverage? Extra uninsured motorist protection?
Are driving records identical? Do Either of your have households have drivers with less tan 10 years driving experience?
Are the vehicles being operated in the same territory?

To say it's the same vehicle and the premium should be the same shows you don't understand the factors that determine premiums.

Stop using half information to build up the hysteria.


Not to mention it is VERY common in Alberta to not have glass coverage. Most vehicle have it in BC. Glass coverage is very expensive in AB.

Very hard to compare province to province for MANY reasons.


That may be, but go and have a windshield installed in Ab. It is substantially less costly. ICBC dictates the pricing and like in every instance ICBC is grossly in competent in paying TOO much. When one needs a windshield in Ab. they just go get one instead of paying for glass insurance year after year and probably never getting one. Like me. ICBC is a travesty.
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Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby 00fxd » Oct 30th, 2017, 10:33 am

Hassel99 wrote:
ninetyninepct wrote:Close friends in Lethbridge just bought a car identical to ours except for color. Insurance for virtually the same coverage is slightly more than half of what we pay ICBC. ICBC is a horribly expensive ripoff. Shut it down, open us up to free market and eventually get rid of an awful lot of Government workers. e would also save millions on the perpetual lawyers fees.



There are many other factors to consider.

Did you get the same liability limits? Road star or not? Loss of use coverage? Extra uninsured motorist protection?
Are driving records identical? Do Either of your have households have drivers with less tan 10 years driving experience?
Are the vehicles being operated in the same territory?

To say it's the same vehicle and the premium should be the same shows you don't understand the factors that determine premiums.

Stop using half information to build up the hysteria.


Yes there are factors to consider. And ICBC from the very beginning did not understand this. Speaking of 1/2 truths do you feel like recalling the the first year ICBC was incompetently in business? The "Fair is Fair" program? Where male drivers under 25 did not have to pay higher premiums because it wasn't "fair"??!! Pardon me??!! Every insurance entity IN THE WORLD charges higher premiums for drivers in that category - FOR OBVIOUS REASONS! That sure didn't last. Apparently they were new in the business and had not taken any training. And the same type of incompetence has been rampant all the way through. Blundering through and making policies that don't make any sense at all. Over staffed at the top by bureaucrats that don't know the business but making over $100k and understaffed by the middle workers that know what they are doing. But when things get tough those at the top are not going to lay themselves of. Just like every government run entity.
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Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby Merry » Oct 30th, 2017, 10:39 am

my5cents wrote:perhaps it's time that some of the costs that have been foisted onto ICBC should at least be made public knowledge.

All costs for licensing drivers is conducted by ICBC for free to the government, but the fees go to the government.

All monies that are collected by ICBC Collections are obtained without cost to the government, but the money gained goes to the government.

This kind of thing needs to stop. Government business and ICBC business should not be treated as one and the same (despite the obvious shared interests).

If it's something that Private insurance wouldn't pay for, then ICBC shouldn't be paying for it either. The Government should be paying for it's own administration costs out of it's own revenue.
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Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby techrtr » Oct 31st, 2017, 5:56 am

Get rid of it. ICBC sucks pure and simple. Consumers always lose in a monopoly.

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Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby jimmy4321 » Oct 31st, 2017, 5:59 am

techrtr wrote:Get rid of it. ICBC sucks pure and simple. Consumers always lose in a monopoly.


There's TOO MANY milking that cow for that to ever happen :smt045
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Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby techrtr » Oct 31st, 2017, 8:45 am

jimmy4321 wrote:
techrtr wrote:Get rid of it. ICBC sucks pure and simple. Consumers always lose in a monopoly.


There's TOO MANY milking that cow for that to ever happen :smt045

Sadly, you're probably right. Maybe they'll throw us a small bone to keep us happy for a while.
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Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby my5cents » Oct 31st, 2017, 10:30 am

00fxd wrote:That may be, but go and have a windshield installed in Ab. It is substantially less costly. ICBC dictates the pricing and like in every instance ICBC is grossly in competent in paying TOO much. When one needs a windshield in Ab. they just go get one instead of paying for glass insurance year after year and probably never getting one. Like me. ICBC is a travesty.


"ICBC dictates the pricing and like in every instance ICBC is grossly in competent in paying TOO much."
Do you just pull a fact out of the air, and announce it as though it is true ? Actually the price ICBC pays for windshields was negotiated by the ARA (Automotive Retailers Association) with ICBC. The ARA contended that the prices it insisted on were bare minimums and negotiations were tough and heated.

Following the established pricing system, ICBC would learn of glass shops that were willing to waive deductibles to encourage customers to attend their shops verses a competitors. It is tough for a windshield shop to win customers, when there is no difference to the customer,,, a windshield is a windshield. Shops will detail you car, conduct a mobile operation, but basically they are all much the same.

When ICBC uncovered one of these shops waiving or reducing deductibles they were penalized fairly substantially.

Yes there are factors to consider. And ICBC from the very beginning did not understand this. Speaking of 1/2 truths do you feel like recalling the the first year ICBC was incompetently in business? The "Fair is Fair" program? Where male drivers under 25 did not have to pay higher premiums because it wasn't "fair"??!! Pardon me??!! Every insurance entity IN THE WORLD charges higher premiums for drivers in that category - FOR OBVIOUS REASONS!


Perhaps you could advise your source on this that : "Every insurance entity IN THE WORLD charges higher premiums for drivers in that category"

That sure didn't last.


I think you'll find that ICBC remains committed to a policy of non-discrimination. A new driver, be they male, female, age 16 or 76, get the same discount, 0%. As each driver, be they M/F 16 or 76 accrue years of non-liable claims driving, they are given discounts on their insurance.

Apparently they were new in the business and had not taken any training. And the same type of incompetence has been rampant all the way through. Blundering through and making policies that don't make any sense at all. Over staffed at the top by bureaucrats that don't know the business but making over $100k and understaffed by the middle workers that know what they are doing. But when things get tough those at the top are not going to lay themselves of. Just like every government run entity.


When ICBC was created, there were growing pains. The core of ICBC hires were from the private auto insurance industry. I think if you check the history of ICBC you will see that until the last 10 years or so, it was fully competing with other provinces that remained with private insurance.

In recent years many provinces, including Alberta, have instituted forms of "no fault" auto insurance. This type of insurance restriction drastically helps auto insurance companies remain profitable, by restricting small tort claims for pain and suffering. The completely different playing field is what now makes it impossible to compare "my friend who lives in AB with the exact same car pays way less" type arguments. (check it yourself)

You are correct, in the recent past (10 years of so) the "Over staffed at the top by bureaucrats that don't know the business" you refer to were the result of the Liberal government medalling in the staffing of ICBC's upper management. They placed highly renowned and experience auto insurance managers from the private sector. The government, ignorant and not willing to listen, placed their picks from the private sector to run ICBC. The methods used in the private sector do not work (obviously) in a government owned and run insurance company.

In my opinion, our provincial government will have to so what most other provincial government have done and institute some form of "no fault" auto insurance in BC.
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Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby Cactusflower » Nov 1st, 2017, 2:50 pm

Castanet news tells me that ICBC rates went up today. Must be retroactive because I renewed my car insurance yesterday and the increase was already there.
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Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby LordEd » Nov 1st, 2017, 2:53 pm

It probably applies to insurance starting Nov 1 and later. Unless you were driving around uninsured, if you renewed yesterday the policy is for Nov 1 or later.
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Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby Carrs Landing Viking » Nov 1st, 2017, 2:55 pm

Cactusflower wrote:Castanet news tells me that ICBC rates went up today. Must be retroactive because I renewed my car insurance yesterday and the increase was already there.



I renewed my insurance yesterday and did not pay the increase announced today.
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Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby alanjh595 » Nov 1st, 2017, 3:09 pm

Carrs Landing Viking wrote:
Cactusflower wrote:Castanet news tells me that ICBC rates went up today. Must be retroactive because I renewed my car insurance yesterday and the increase was already there.



I renewed my insurance yesterday and did not pay the increase announced today.


When I have to renew in 10 months, I will be giving serious consideration to private/alternate insurance companies for the collision, liability, and comprehensive coverages that I want.

Wasn't ICBC a NDP program that got them elected for 1 term, way back in the 80's? Or was it the late 70's.
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Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby bluzcru » Nov 1st, 2017, 3:19 pm

ICBC is supposed to be an Insurance company.. so it should act like it. All these intersection improvements and other roadway improvements , signage, etc. being paid with ICBC premiums is wrong. Ill bet if ICBC stuck to the business of insurance and corrected all of its internal problems such as overpaid staff and top heavy management there would be no shortfall.
If these top heavy management are so good and worthy of bonuses, why can't they fix the mess called ICBC.. just saying.
I thing there needs to be a constitutional challenge here.. Private insurance companies should have the right to compete for all insurance business in BC, not just collision and let the people choose their insurer. If ICBC gives them the best value for the buck they will remain in business.. if not.. bye bye. That's only fair.
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Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby LordEd » Nov 1st, 2017, 3:28 pm

bluzcru wrote:If ICBC gives them the best value for the buck they will remain in business.. if not.. bye bye. That's only fair.
Will ICBC still be required to insure everyone, or be allowed to do risk based insuring? For example...

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/laura-ad ... 73360.html

The difference gets more pronounced when you divide it by gender. A single 20-year-old male will pay 25 percent more for auto insurance than his married counterpart.
...
According to the study, a single 20-year-old male driver will pay 21 percent more than his female counterpart. The good news for men is this difference begins to drastically level off as male drivers get older.
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