46122
45615

ICBC a mess....

Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby Merry » Aug 23rd, 2017, 11:17 am

jimmy4321 wrote:A long road to privatization, but it's coming. There's gonna be a political cost to try to revive ICBC.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... -1.4258351

According to the article the NDP are not in favour of the suggestion (thank goodness).
David Eby, the minister in charge of ICBC, is not sold on a private-public mix. He says the current problems stem from the previous Liberal government using money from the corporation for non-ICBC-related spending. He says the solution is to keep ICBC revenue within the Crown corporation.

"It's not as simple as public-private," Eby said.


Having lived in other Provinces and had private insurance, I can honestly say that the Private model comes with it's own set of problems. One time my hubby hit a pothole, the car developed a strange noise, so he called our broker to see if it was eligible to be put through as a comprehensive claim. He was told yes, but after we did it the Insurance company said it had to be classed as a collision claim. When my hubby said he didn't want to make the claim if that was the case, he was told that was too bad, because once you've started the process it cannot be reversed. So the car was taken to the garage to be fixed as an insurance claim. But when the mechanic looked at it he realized that the strange noise was actually the result of a recall issue, and not the pothole (turns out the timing was just a coincidence), so he phoned the insurance company to tell them, and the guy he spoke to tried talking him into keeping quiet (because it profited the insurance company to charge us higher future premiums for a job they didn't even pay for). The mechanic was disgusted, so he refused to keep quiet, and phoned us to tell us what had happened.

I don't know if this kind of behaviour was company policy, or just one agent trying to get a bigger commission, but the bottom line is that the private insurance industry is rife with such stories (think about all the denied travel insurance claims, and problems following house fire insurance claims). So, as auto insurance is mandatory, I like the idea of buying it from an agency that isn't motivated by the same issues as the private companies are.

Yes, they need to make big changes at ICBC. But I don't believe privatizing it is the answer to the Corporations current woes.
"In a world swathed in political correctness, the voting booth remains the final sanctuary where the people are free to speak" - Clifford Orwin

2 people like this post.
User avatar
Merry
Guru
 
Posts: 6623
Likes: 3288 posts
Liked in: 3330 posts
Joined: Nov 2nd, 2008, 12:41 pm

Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby my5cents » Aug 23rd, 2017, 12:29 pm

dontrump wrote:Like we said My5Cents ICBC should first and foremost be a insurance company

not a traffic control business ;;not a road side safety business ;; not in the driver license business;; not in the salvage business
not in property management business;; not in the investment business
I never said don't invest spare funds;; I said as all the other stuff sublet it

JUST be a INSURANCE company

The big push is to lower cost to we the residents of BC.

So, eliminate any involvement from ICBC for dangerous intersection improvements, Road Safety, Give up Driver's Licensing, mandate, that (what ?) all auto insurance companies MUST sell their salvage to private salvage yards ?

Now it gets confusing,,, you say "not in the investment business" then you say "I never said don't invest spare funds", so which is it, invest ? or not.

Now that the government has taken over :
    - Dangerous Intersection Improvements
    - Road Safety
    - Driver's Licensing
    - (and not mentioned, but I'm guessing) Vehicle Registration
    - (also no mentioned, but I'm guessing) Fine Collections

Who's going to pay for all this ? At this moment, the government already receives the registration fees and the driver's license fees and fines that are collected by ICBC (the exception being penalty points), but ICBC supplies all the services FREE to the government.

How many hundred's of millions is it going to cost to staff and run departments to do this ?
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it"
my5cents
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3011
Likes: 514 posts
Liked in: 768 posts
Joined: Nov 14th, 2009, 3:22 pm

Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby dontrump » Aug 23rd, 2017, 12:52 pm

Who's going to pay for all this ? At this moment, the government already receives the registration fees and the driver's license fees and fines that are collected by ICBC (the exception being penalty points), but ICBC supplies all the services FREE to the government.

How many hundred's of millions is it going to cost to staff and run departments to do this ?


your throwing out wild accusations;; the gov would run things as they do all other stuff

ICBC should sell insurance just like private insurance ;;Things like road safety;; public awareness;; fines;; licencing etc
should be left up to the government to look after ;; salvage should be let out to bid saving MILIONS of dollars right there
All propertys should be sold and the property management division dissolved saving many more Millions
Excess funds should be managed by a private investment group ;; ICBC should settle more claims out of court and save Millions
dontrump
Übergod
 
Posts: 1708
Likes: 352 posts
Liked in: 497 posts
Joined: Feb 20th, 2016, 11:39 am

Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby Merry » Aug 23rd, 2017, 1:05 pm

my5cents wrote: At this moment, the government already receives the registration fees and the driver's license fees and fines that are collected by ICBC (the exception being penalty points), but ICBC supplies all the services FREE to the government.

And there is the answer; WHY is ICBC providing all those services to the Government for free?

If ICBC is saving the Government money by doing work that is the Government's responsibility, then the Government should be paying for that work. It's called contracting out. If the Government chooses to contract out work that is Government business, then the Government should be paying the Contractor (which in this case is ICBC).

If the Government doesn't want to pay a contractor, then the Government should do the work themselves.

ICBC is primarily an insurance corporation; if it is more efficient to also allow them to do all the other stuff they do, then fine, provided they get paid for doing it. But allowing them to do Government work, just so the cost of doing that work doesn't show up on the Government balance sheets, is simply another way of "raiding" a Crown Corporation for funds that should rightly come out of Government Tax Revenue.

As I've said before, we all have to collectively pay for everything the Government does, whether directly via the tax system, or via some more indirect method. But I prefer the more direct approach, because it allows us to see exactly how much of our money the Government is taking, and what they are using it for. Information we all NEED if we are to hold our Government accountable for how much they spend, and what they choose to spend it on.

Using ICBC's resources as a way of artificially keeping income taxes down is dishonest, because it doesn't allow people to see the big picture. In addition to which, using artificially high insurance rates to pay for Government services results in low income people paying unaffordable amounts just so rich people can pay less income tax.

If we want to turn ICBC around, we need to run it the same way any business would be run. Which includes charging the Government for any work ICBC does on its behalf.
"In a world swathed in political correctness, the voting booth remains the final sanctuary where the people are free to speak" - Clifford Orwin

2 people like this post.
User avatar
Merry
Guru
 
Posts: 6623
Likes: 3288 posts
Liked in: 3330 posts
Joined: Nov 2nd, 2008, 12:41 pm

Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby lasnomadas » Aug 23rd, 2017, 7:48 pm

What would Davy Barrett do? The ICBC that he brought in for British Columbians worked very well. There must be someone from that era who can step in and straighten out this mess.
lasnomadas
Übergod
 
Posts: 1301
Likes: 2026 posts
Liked in: 437 posts
Joined: Jun 3rd, 2008, 11:41 am

Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby my5cents » Aug 25th, 2017, 11:14 am

dontrump wrote:your throwing out wild accusations;; the gov would run things as they do all other stuff

ICBC should sell insurance just like private insurance ;;Things like road safety;; public awareness;; fines;; licencing etc
should be left up to the government to look after ;; salvage should be let out to bid saving MILIONS of dollars right there
All propertys should be sold and the property management division dissolved saving many more Millions
Excess funds should be managed by a private investment group ;; ICBC should settle more claims out of court and save Millions

I'm confused on what "wild accusations" I'm throwing out.

"the gov would run things as they do all other stuff", doesn't answer the question of where the money is going to come from for the government to take these tasks over.

The experts have said that one of the positives for ICBC is their Road Safety programs.

The percentage of fines, collected by ICBC is higher than other jurisdictions, they apparently do a good job in that.

This one, I'm real confused on : "salvage should be let out to bid saving MILIONS (sp) of dollars right there". ??? Doesn't ICBC already sell it's salvage by bid ? ICBC is either going to store salvage in their own salvage yards or pay a third party to do so (and in some areas they already do). They are either going to sell the salvage by bid using their own employees or they are going to have to pay a third party to do so, where's this huge savings ?

Since you mentioned salvage so many times, it leaves me to suspect that you've either had a bad experience in purchasing salvage or have been refused because you are not authorized to purchase same. A well run salvage program is integral to controlling the existence of vehicle identifications that can be utilized to renumber stolen vehicles. Control of salvage by registration, branding and sale only to qualified salvage buyers, sets BC apart from many jurisdictions.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it"

2 people like this post.
my5cents
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3011
Likes: 514 posts
Liked in: 768 posts
Joined: Nov 14th, 2009, 3:22 pm

Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby mikest2 » Aug 25th, 2017, 6:50 pm

Here's a great example

https://www.castanet.net/news/West-Kelo ... annon-Lake

Nice view of the underside of a truck, oversize tires, likely a lift kit and suspension modifications. These do have a direct effect on handling. Anything I deal with that involves people has to be engineered, checked, and signed off by a BC P.Eng
Why does this not apply to vehicle modifications ? Now ICBC (you and I) are on the hook for it. Don't even get me started on chipping diesel trucks, if you see one blowing black, it is in contravention to our laws, and both the owner and shop that did the mods should be held accountable and pay through the nose.
Once I thought I was wrong.....but I was mistaken...

Merry likes this post.
mikest2
Board Meister
 
Posts: 583
Likes: 296 posts
Liked in: 576 posts
Joined: Aug 7th, 2006, 10:00 pm

Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby my5cents » Aug 25th, 2017, 8:25 pm

mikest2 wrote:Here's a great example

https://www.castanet.net/news/West-Kelo ... annon-Lake

Nice view of the underside of a truck, oversize tires, likely a lift kit and suspension modifications. These do have a direct effect on handling. Anything I deal with that involves people has to be engineered, checked, and signed off by a BC P.Eng
Why does this not apply to vehicle modifications ? Now ICBC (you and I) are on the hook for it. Don't even get me started on chipping diesel trucks, if you see one blowing black, it is in contravention to our laws, and both the owner and shop that did the mods should be held accountable and pay through the nose.

It certainly does. I've never driven, nor wanted to driver one of these jacked up road toys, but have been told, even the ruts we find in the blacktop at some intersections can make them quite unstable.

The government has seen fit to not have testing stations so why aren't police trained in the law and in the least to ID the lifted vehicles and order them tested.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it"
my5cents
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3011
Likes: 514 posts
Liked in: 768 posts
Joined: Nov 14th, 2009, 3:22 pm

Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby dontrump » Aug 26th, 2017, 9:06 am

It certainly does. I've never driven, nor wanted to driver one of these jacked up road toys, but have been told, even the ruts we find in the blacktop at some intersections can make them quite unstable.

The government has seen fit to not have testing stations so why aren't police trained in the law and in the least to ID the lifted vehicles and order them tested.


I have never heard that before(rut deal) However there are rules and regulations set forth in the MVA and police are trained in these rules for the most part;;If a cop sees a jacked truck and it appears unsafe or out of regulation they will give them(truck owner) a order to have the vehicle inspected at a government certified test station and certified ;; happens all the time
learn the law and understand before posting untrue myths
dontrump
Übergod
 
Posts: 1708
Likes: 352 posts
Liked in: 497 posts
Joined: Feb 20th, 2016, 11:39 am

Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby jimmy4321 » Aug 26th, 2017, 9:39 am

Honestly this is all just a series of distractions to keep people from asking the real questions as to the real reason ICBC is a MESS.
jimmy4321
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3048
Likes: 700 posts
Liked in: 1301 posts
Joined: Jun 6th, 2010, 5:40 pm

Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby my5cents » Aug 26th, 2017, 9:54 am

dontrump wrote:I have never heard that before(rut deal) However there are rules and regulations set forth in the MVA and police are trained in these rules for the most part;;If a cop sees a jacked truck and it appears unsafe or out of regulation they will give them(truck owner) a order to have the vehicle inspected at a government certified test station and certified ;; happens all the time
learn the law and understand before posting untrue myths

I'm not sure what law I should learn or understand.

I'm also confused as to what "untrue myths" I've posted.

The section of the MVA Regulations that stipulates that any vehicle raised more than 4 inches (the metric equivalent) must be inspected and then given the designation of "modified" does NOT have the requirement of appearing to be unsafe.

As for "police are trained" I gather you have experienced police training ? You are aware that the RCMP, who conduct contract policing in BC, are trained in federal law but get little training in the individual provincial statutes because each recruit may go to any of many provinces and the three territories that use the RCMP for policing on a contract basis ?

I would be interested how you know this happens "all the time".

Any vehicle that is raised over 4 inches doesn't require a "pass" for safety, it is required to be re-registered as a "modified vehicle" in addition to being certified roadworthy.

Inspection facilities are generally comfortable inspecting and determining if vehicles are safe in relation to complying to manufacturers standards but generally are not when it comes to vehicles that have been altered, since they are not engineers.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it"
my5cents
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3011
Likes: 514 posts
Liked in: 768 posts
Joined: Nov 14th, 2009, 3:22 pm

Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby Urbane » Aug 28th, 2017, 1:49 pm

Excellent column and a must read:

Politics is all too often an exercise in assigning blame, at the expense of analysis and tough choices that lead to solutions.
http://www.campbellrivermirror.com/opin ... icbc-mess/

2 people like this post.
User avatar
Urbane
Buddha of the Board
 
Posts: 19493
Likes: 5948 posts
Liked in: 7180 posts
Joined: Jul 8th, 2007, 7:41 pm

Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby Carrs Landing Viking » Aug 28th, 2017, 5:04 pm

Urbane wrote:Excellent column and a must read:

Politics is all too often an exercise in assigning blame, at the expense of analysis and tough choices that lead to solutions.
http://www.campbellrivermirror.com/opin ... icbc-mess/



Great column. Lets see what the NDP will do now that the Liberals ended the practice of raiding ICBC coffers.

2 people like this post.
User avatar
Carrs Landing Viking
Board Meister
 
Posts: 428
Likes: 4359 posts
Liked in: 401 posts
Joined: Mar 2nd, 2010, 8:06 pm

Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby my5cents » Aug 28th, 2017, 6:54 pm

Carrs Landing Viking wrote:Great column. Lets see what the NDP will do now that the Liberals ended the practice of raiding ICBC coffers.


Yes it was, certainly indicates the problem.

Looks like many on this forum have arrived at what appears to be the only solution, as it seems to be the only logical one. Some sort of no fault.

Certainly leaves the question: "Why Won't Eby consider no fault ?" Lawyers protect lawyers ?

To those that see privatization as the solution, most areas that are controlled currently by ICBC cost less than private. What's eating ICBC alive would do the same to private.

If private got their toe in the door after a short time they would be announcing they have to bump rates drastically unless the government legislated no fault.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it"
my5cents
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3011
Likes: 514 posts
Liked in: 768 posts
Joined: Nov 14th, 2009, 3:22 pm

Re: ICBC a mess....

Postby ninetyninepct » Aug 31st, 2017, 8:27 pm

Close friends in Lethbridge just bought a car identical to ours except for color. Insurance for virtually the same coverage is slightly more than half of what we pay ICBC. ICBC is a horribly expensive ripoff. Shut it down, open us up to free market and eventually get rid of an awful lot of Government workers. e would also save millions on the perpetual lawyers fees.
ninetyninepct
 
Posts: 9
Likes: 7 posts
Liked in: 6 posts
Joined: Aug 31st, 2017, 12:15 pm

PreviousNext

Return to B.C.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests