More BS Courtesy of the BCTF!

[Urban Cowboy]

Um, no it's not, I see the pay stubs

Yeah yeah, now add in the monetary value of your benefits and perks then get back to us.

[Urban Cowboy]

Despite what so many people "think", the benefits are pretty standard. I have had comparable benefits when working private sector in fact. There are some odd benefits to be sure when compared with some packages, but the things that we seem to get an unusual amount of tend to be rather odd quite frankly. As far as Dental and medical, pretty darn standard as I am happy with the benefits, but I am serious when I say I have had just as good and better from private.

Sure, we have great vacation, no denying it. But every official vacation slot has several days prep for the upcoming term. It's never as much as people think.

And lastly, I think $63,000 a year for 5-7 years post-secondary and 10 years of full time work, plus 3+ years of subbing to even get the isn't bad, but it's not extravagant either. I have again made much more working private with similar credentials.

The only teachers making $100k a year have a Masters and 20+ years of service

You are purposely downplaying what is a well compensated profession in BC. If you don't believe me I suggest you visit the BCTF's own propaganda site and take note of how they brag about the BC teachers pension being the best thing since apple pie.

We've had more than enough discussions on this board, with supporting documentation to show what the average teacher takes home in pay and benefits.

FYI even if you were correct in suggesting it's sub par then I suggest you give yourself a reality check by looking up what the median income is for the average British Columbian. I'm pretty sure it's around the mid 30K zone so be happy with what you have, or boogie on off to one of those places where you think the grass is so much greener in so far as teacher pay goes.

I know there are plenty who'd be thrilled to earn a teacher's salary in BC, never mind the added benefit of summers off along with all the other holidays.

[Urban Cowboy]

Ah yes, the lasting gift of stupidity from Adrian Dix and the BC NDP.

More teachers, by the way, does NOT equal better educational outcomes. https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/the-real-issue-in-ontarios-schools-the-teachers-need-to-be-taught-math/article36136069/

For those stuck at the paywall:

"The real issue in Ontario’s schools: The teachers need to be taught math"

Hmmmm............ is it possible there's a connection here? Did all our NDP politicians go to school in Ontario?

[hobbyguy]

http://www.businessinsider.com/teacher-salaries-by-country-2017-5/#elementary-school-teachers-best-and-worst-1

BC teacher salaries average $64,131 according to StatsCan. That puts them just outside top ten highest paid in the world. And waay ahead of Sweden at $46,000.

Median individual income in BC is about $33,000 according to StatsCan. So teachers get close to double the median individual income (that's who pays teacher salaries!). http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/famil105k-eng.htm - without considering netter than average benefits, and then there is the pension provisions (retire at 60 with full pension) that many of those below them just don't have.

Making comparisons to provinces that can't afford the salaries they pay teachers (most are running significant deficits) is irrelevant. BC can barely afford what we pay teachers now.

[LordEd]

If you're wondering why I have no sympathy for teachers, please visit the active threads during the last strike. Severe, possibly irreparable damage has been done to the reputation of the profession.

[The Green Barbarian]

If you're wondering why I have no sympathy for teachers, please visit the active threads during the last strike. Severe, possibly irreparable damage has been done to the reputation of the profession.

I'm not against teachers (for obvious reasons having two parents who were teachers) but I am against their horrible union. And as we saw in Ontario with that John A. nonsense, it appears that the stupidity of the unions representing teachers doesn't stop at the BC/Alberta border. These "unions" are not unions at all, they are political organizations who are funded by teachers, and that's not fair. Teachers deserve to be represented by their unions, if they are paying the freight, instead of funding bizarre fanatical Marxist organizations. Better yet, teachers shouldn't have unions at all, but simply professional organizations. We can thank Vanderzalm for that one folks.

So to sum up, the minute you start attacking teachers, the BCTF wins. The teachers who have drunk the "we are always at war" Kool-Aid will feel vindicated. I always try and make that distinction. The "Baddies" here are the dinosaurs who run the BCTF, not teachers.

[rustled]

If you're wondering why I have no sympathy for teachers, please visit the active threads during the last strike. Severe, possibly irreparable damage has been done to the reputation of the profession.

I'm not against teachers (for obvious reasons having two parents who were teachers) but I am against their horrible union. And as we saw in Ontario with that John A. nonsense, it appears that the stupidity of the unions representing teachers doesn't stop at the BC/Alberta border. These "unions" are not unions at all, they are political organizations who are funded by teachers, and that's not fair. Teachers deserve to be represented by their unions, if they are paying the freight, instead of funding bizarre fanatical Marxist organizations. Better yet, teachers shouldn't have unions at all, but simply professional organizations. We can thank Vanderzalm for that one folks.

So to sum up, the minute you start attacking teachers, the BCTF wins. The teachers who have drunk the "we are always at war" Kool-Aid will feel vindicated. I always try and make that distinction. The "Baddies" here are the dinosaurs who run the BCTF, not teachers.

I'd add, we're hoping for better (for the teachers, the students, and the future well-being of our communities) from the BCTF's new leadership.

[Urban Cowboy]

I'd add, we're hoping for better (for the teachers, the students, and the future well-being of our communities) from the BCTF's new leadership.

One can hope, however so far it looks like Hansman is beating the same drum Iker used, and Jinny Sims and............

In essence it seems the same playbook gets passed on down to each new leader.

[rustled]

I'd add, we're hoping for better (for the teachers, the students, and the future well-being of our communities) from the BCTF's new leadership.

One can hope, however so far it looks like Hansman is beating the same drum Iker used, and Jinny Sims and............

In essence it seems the same playbook gets passed on down to each new leader.

I can't fault him for pushing for $ more for teachers. That's what the BCTF is supposed to do: get the best deal possible for their membership.

To date, I haven't seen him use the "We're doing all this for the students" b.s., and I really hope he doesn't go there. I wasn't impressed with his "the previous government didn't do enough" dig, as that seems to indicate we're looking at the usual partisan politcking from them.

Really, the bottom line to me is the BCTF needs to stop presuming they're in any way responsible for managing our schools. They should present themselves as the negotiating arm of a group of professionals who are fully willing to work with the people who are responsible for managing our schools, and, above all, they need to quit peddling the nonsense pretense that students are the BCTF's primary concern.

Teachers in other provinces are represented by organizations who serve their membership far better than ours. (Ontario's ought to be more aware of the risks of becoming a political organization that hurts its own membership for the sake of politicking.)

Hansman may want to look at the BCTF's part in making B.C. a less attractive place for teachers to work in the past. IMO, he ought to ensure the BCTF is prepared to serve teachers who want to work in a province where their union puts the well-being of its membership first.

[Bsuds]

Unions should not be allowed to try and influence politics as not all members will agree with their choices.

[seewood]

Unions should not be allowed to try and influence politics as not all members will agree with their choices

I agree. When in a fire dept ( POC) it was stated we stay apolitical during civic elections. There was some attempt for us to back one candidate or another but we didn't bite.
The BCTF should do the same and stick with representing their members the best they can and not make issues political and continually it seems, whine about low pay, classroom size at a level we had in the 60's and 70's...the list goes on.

I do agree however if the school districts are integrating special needs into the mainstream classrooms, they had better make sure there are enough qualified EA's for those kids. That is where the $$$ should be going to, not more teachers for the sake of more teachers.

[Bigdaddy2290]

I was looking at my class photos' elementary school in late 60's- every class had 35 kids and one teacher. My kids classes were much smaller than that. Maybe I was marginalized and didn't get enough attention and that is why I am who I am today.
My youngest went to a Montessori school that had 7 students in the class. She enjoyed it but I can't say that she ended up being a doctor or a lawyer or premier of BC (jk).
As for the today's teachers ,,,,, THANK YOU

[hobbyguy]

When I started school we were on shifts, that's how crowded the schools were.

In terms of academic achievement, the quality of teaching matters more than the number of teachers. In terms of the modern context, increasing the number of assistants matters more than increasing the number of teachers (but the BCTF worked very hard to kill both of those possibilities).

Philosophically, my view is that you don't "teach" anybody anything, they have to learn it. Out of that comes the notion that schools are largely about enabling learning.

So what is best, having 12 teachers or 14 combined quality teachers + assistants for the same tax dollars? The BCTF would say 12 teachers. I would say 14 combined quality teachers + assistants.

[erinmore3775]

It is predictable that we begin the new school year with teacher/school bashing. In the past, there can be no doubt that the provincial government and the teachers 's union were at war. It culminated in a SCOC ruling that was favorable to the union's position. The ruling, that largely returned BC classrooms and schools to the working conditions of 2002. That meant that over 1000 teachers had to be recruited to fill positions in the province with the second highest cost of living, the second lowest average teachers' salary, and some of the highest residential living costs in Canada. This was/is a very daunting task since whether an apprentice, journeyman, or university educated professional, those seeking employment often choose the greenest pastures.

The two most important jobs to ensure a successful community are those of parenting and teaching. Yet for the past 10 years the BC Provincial government turned its back on then. The actions of the Families First motto were limited to less than 10% of the population. While some here relish the sixties, a time when the two parent, single parent working families were the norm, and also a time of very different norms and values. Today's norms and values are much different. Years ago homework was expected and classroom decorum and politeness expected. Parents supported the system. Today much has changed.

What has not changed is the fact that teachers do not teach their own curriculum. They teach a prescribed and mandated curriculum outlined by the Ministry of Education. Unfortunately, that math and science curriculum has become so theoretical that it confounds the young and old learner alike. That is not the fault of the teachers, the school boards, or the parents but the fault of the government and the educational leadership. In spite of the short comings of the last 10 years, teachers were able to create classroom environments that fostered learning that allowed BC students to achieve some of the best academic results in Canada. For that teachers should be congratulated not denegrated.

This is a time of transition and change. I would like to give the present government time (more than 3months) to upgrade the education and health systems using some of that $2.7 B surplus. I believe that our parents and teachers need to be supported, especially at this time. It is all to easy to criticize. It is harder to offer constructive criticism. If there are not positive changes to the classroom learning conditions especially for special needs and gray area students in the next year, I will be one of the first to raise my voice against maintenance of the status quo.

[maryjane48]

Unions should not be allowed to try and influence politics as not all members will agree with their choices.

companies that are non union should do the same . no one should be backing any party execpt for the individuals. since there way more of those compared to unions when do you plan on starting a petition to prevent it from happening ? i will sign one