Castanet

flamingfingers wrote:Many of these teacher bashers think teachers 'just show up for work' - or they think all teachers just 'stand and deliver' .

Oh if it were all just that easy!!

Iam pretty sure most decent clear minded people do not think this at all;; I believe the teachers union bosses have done more damage to teachers reputation than they(teachers) realize
I for one don't think teachers are over paid at all BUT I think they are fairly compensated ;; when I see what ICBC and BC hydro and WCB employees etc make it almost makes me think maybe teachers are under paid

dontrump wrote:I for one don't think teachers are over paid at all BUT I think they are fairly compensated ;; when I see what ICBC and BC hydro and WCB employees etc make it almost makes me think maybe teachers are under paid

Some are under-paid, some aren't. Unfortunately the BCTF makes it really hard to determine which is which. Which is why it is getting harder and harder to get teachers to volunteer outside of school hours. And I can't blame them. The union mentality brought in by the BCTF is a poison on the public school system and needs to be abolished.

So why don't you volunteer?

This thread really shows how ridiculous some people are.

Teachers work hard and deserve to get paid for it. The government has been ignoring investing in schools for a long time and finally the courts agreed. end of story there.

The teachers that work in my kids' school are there early, and leave late. They work at home at night. They work to help my children read and write and learn. As a parent I support them and they support our kids. They are coaches and volunteers and don't get paid anything to do these extra jobs.

If you people that seem to bash teachers because you feel they make too much money and have pensions and such should really look into what it takes to be one. They're educated and believe in our kids!

Time for people to really stop complaining about what is not a real problem at all.

Thank you to teachers.

Chyren wrote: They are coaches and volunteers and don't get paid anything to do these extra jobs.

So am I and many of my friends, I am not certain you know what volunteering means. It doesn't mean you should get paid.

I thank teachers all the time, I deal with teachers often and respect most (some like all professions are crap).

Teachers are also compensated for the hard work they do, no one here argues that, what people dislike is the constant whining of their union.......I don't hear teachers talk like this, just failed teachers who want a raise by taking it from teachers...aka the union heads.

Find the separation we have all stated, the BCTF is NOT teachers, teachers are hard working good people, the BCTF is a political activist group living off hard working teachers. Know the difference because knowing is half the battle.

Chyren wrote:This thread really shows how ridiculous some people are.

Teachers work hard and deserve to get paid for it. The government has been ignoring investing in schools for a long time and finally the courts agreed. end of story there.

The teachers that work in my kids' school are there early, and leave late. They work at home at night. They work to help my children read and write and learn. As a parent I support them and they support our kids. They are coaches and volunteers and don't get paid anything to do these extra jobs.

If you people that seem to bash teachers because you feel they make too much money and have pensions and such should really look into what it takes to be one. They're educated and believe in our kids!

Time for people to really stop complaining about what is not a real problem at all.

Thank you to teachers.

Clearly the gist of the thread being that the BCTF is bad, went right over your head!

Veovis wrote:

Chyren wrote: They are coaches and volunteers and don't get paid anything to do these extra jobs.

So am I and many of my friends, I am not certain you know what volunteering means. It doesn't mean you should get paid.

Do you demand recognition for your volunteering activities?

Would you stop volunteering if your main job wanted to strike?

If yes, is it really voluntary?

We studied teachers' pay in Canada. What we found will surprise you.

September 1, 2015

There is no clear relationship between province-wide student assessment results and relative teacher pay in Canada’s six largest provinces, according to a new C.D. Howe Institute report. In “Value for Money? Teacher Compensation and Student Outcomes in Canada’s Six Largest Provinces,” author David R. Johnson explores whether those provinces that pay their teachers more achieve better results.

https://www.cdhowe.org/public-policy-re ... rprise-you

rookie314 wrote:So why don't you volunteer?

how do you know I don't? What an ignorant comment, but what else is new.

Chyren wrote:
Time for people to really stop complaining about what is not a real problem at all.

The BCTF is a real problem. And something needs to be done about it/them. The union industrial model does not work in a public school setting. It's just one big fail.

The Green Barbarian wrote:how do you know I don't? What an ignorant comment, but what else is new.

You don't advertise your activities and expect praise for it, or withhold volunteer services if the world isn't paying you for your generosity.

That's what volunteering is, isn't it?

Old Techie wrote:

Chyren wrote:This thread really shows how ridiculous some people are.

Teachers work hard and deserve to get paid for it. The government has been ignoring investing in schools for a long time and finally the courts agreed. end of story there.

The teachers that work in my kids' school are there early, and leave late. They work at home at night. They work to help my children read and write and learn. As a parent I support them and they support our kids. They are coaches and volunteers and don't get paid anything to do these extra jobs.

If you people that seem to bash teachers because you feel they make too much money and have pensions and such should really look into what it takes to be one. They're educated and believe in our kids!

Time for people to really stop complaining about what is not a real problem at all.

Thank you to teachers.

Clearly the gist of the thread being that the BCTF is bad, went right over your head!

When you go over the bulk of this thread its bashing the actual teachers as much as the BCTF.

Chyren wrote:
When you go over the bulk of this thread its bashing the actual teachers as much as the BCTF.

Nice deflection. How do you feel about the BCTF? Any comments either way? I am curious to know if you feel the dues teachers pay to the BCTF are providing them with any value.

Chyren wrote:

Old Techie wrote:Clearly the gist of the thread being that the BCTF is bad, went right over your head!

When you go over the bulk of this thread its bashing the actual teachers as much as the BCTF.

Bunk.

It was entirely focused on the BCTF until a teacher's spouse started playing the "underappreciated" card, the very card the BCTF keeps insisting they play. (The one you're playing now.)

Even after that, the vast majority of posters have been very explicit that while there are some teachers who ought to be relieved of their duties, as is the case in any profession, their disgust is with the BCTF's activities.

I often wonder if some contributors here ever read the articles they reference or are they just content to read the headlines. While the CD Howe commentary indicates that there is no relationship between compensation and student academic results. "Factors other than teacher compensation that are unexplored here may better explain the interprovincial variation in student achievement results."

https://www.cdhowe.org/sites/default/files/attachments/research_papers/mixed/Commentary_434_0.pdf

"Saskatchewan and British Columbia, with the longest histories of collective bargaining and centralized funding, are two provinces with clearly lower relative teacher salaries. It seems possible that relative teacher compensation in Alberta and Ontario could gradually fall to the levels in British Columbia and Saskatchewan as these provinces move to a more centralized bargaining process.

It is important to note that that this analysis/commentary at no time union bashes but in contrast the author suggests that "There appears to be room to reduce the growth of teacher compensation relative to other occupations so that teachers in other provinces end up in similar salary percentiles to teachers in BC. It would also seem that other provinces could implement much less generous pension rules, emulating those in British Columbia." The analysis/commentary clearly points out that there is significant compensation difference between provinces especially when the top salaries are compared. The fact that the educational results are exceptional in Math, Reading, and Science in BC shows that BC's teachers are a very dedicated and professional group and that their concern for their students has been paramount even during the past 10 years of extreme conflict with their employer.

Now it is important to examine what the BCTF is really saying about the current recruitment. They are indicating that the relatively high cost of living in the lower mainland and in rural BC (along with the lack of amenities in rural BC) is making it difficult for many school boards to recruit the teachers needed to meet the SCOC judgement, especially if they are recruiting out of province.

I would encourage contributors to this forum to examine the BC government Cost of Living Calculator. Use it to determine what it is estimated to cost to live in BC's cities. However, remember that the salaries indicated for all professions are the "median" salaries and are significantly above or below the starting salary of a teacher or the maximum salary of a teacher with two degrees. However, the calculator will show that a "new" teacher would not be able to "live" in the lower mainland with his /her initial entrance salary. Even in Kelowna, they would find it a significant challenge to pay for an apartment rental, utilities, food, and transportation. This means that out of province recruitment is difficult.

http://www.costofliving.welcomebc.ca/

Please examine the Stats Can monthly cost of living statistics.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/cpis01a-eng.htm

When you examine these tables remember that the figures are averaged over the entire province. Using these figures BC teachers salaries should be within 5% of those of Ontario. They are at the entrance level, but not at the maximum levels. The argument the CD Howe commentary is making is that the rate of salary growth of the teacher salaries in Ontario should be curtailed (evened out) until all provincial teacher salaries are comparatively matched to their Cost of Living Index comparisons. The commentary suggests that the best way to achieve this is through centralized collective bargaining. This has existed in BC d in various forms since 1996.

I would also urge contributors to examine the relative cost of living outlined on this website for various Canadian cities and perhaps there will be an understanding of why teachers from other provinces might not be willing to seek a position in BC.

https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/country/canada

All contributors must remember that war between BC teachers, their union, and the provincial government began in 2002 and ended with a SCOC decision less than a year ago. While those parties are now trying to work together to solve the problems caused by that war, there are others on the sidelines who prefer to put the blame for the current situation only on one side. They fail to understand that any employee or person seeking employment want their work remuneration to reflect current fair market value, not the market value a year ago or 10 years ago. They want their remuneration to adequately allow them to live and raise a family in the region where they have chosen to live. One must also respect that employers need to recruit the best possible people allowed respecting their bottom line. These recruitment and employment truths are in effect whether the employer is private or public.