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NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby The Green Barbarian » Sep 7th, 2017, 8:39 am

Cactusflower wrote:We need infrastructure, but not the kind that the BC Liberals gave us,


Yeah actually we do. I realize you like to spin everything the Liberals do to the negative, but I for one am so glad they built so much during their sixteen years in power, especially after watching two terms of NDP mismanagement and indecision in the 1990's that put the entire province of BC behind the eight-ball and left us with so much crumbling infrastructure. I get that you want to spin the NDP model of time-killing indecision and crony-rewarding waste, but it's just that. Total and utter waste.
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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby The Green Barbarian » Sep 7th, 2017, 8:41 am

maryjane48 wrote: reviews is what proper govts do so they can present a case for or against. :


No, reviews are what crooked corrupt governments like the NDP do, purely to line the pockets of their cronies. Keep justifying corruption and waste, no one is buying this load of horse dung.
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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby GordonH » Sep 7th, 2017, 9:02 am

spooked wrote:10-lane bridge? The first thing that comes to mind is "induced demand much?" ... do we want to be the Los Angeles of the North? crisscrossed with huge chunks of concrete that have to be maintained by a more taxes?

I'd love to see the money spent extending the SkyTrain out there ... moving people not moving cars ...

I agree that we have to hold the government accountable ... and they say the review would be done by spring 2018 ... let's see how well their estimate fits and then start kvetching ...


Well, just look at what is happening in GVRD days after tolls being removed vehicle traffic is way up. There are those who will always use public transportation (if possible cycle as well).
On flip side there is also very large segment that will prefer to use a vehicle. Yes getting a Skytrain line to each of the area's in GVRD is something look to do, also need to have the road system as well.

10 lane bridge, it depends what GVRD feels will be the population of the Delta area in the next 50 years
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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby spooker » Sep 7th, 2017, 9:20 am

GordonH wrote:Well, just look at what is happening in GVRD days after tolls being removed vehicle traffic is way up. There are those who will always use public transportation (if possible cycle as well).
On flip side there is also very large segment that will prefer to use a vehicle. Yes getting a Skytrain line to each of the area's in GVRD is something look to do, also need to have the road system as well.

10 lane bridge, it depends what GVRD feels will be the population of the Delta area in the next 50 years


Subtle ;) considering how much I deal with cars on the road I actually don't get spooked too often ...

I'd been arguing with friends that removing the tolls was the wrong thing to do ... for exactly the reason you mention, free roads just encourage people to drive more ... tell people about how cars are an overwhelming source of GHGs and they just shrug and drive on ... explain that an extremely large portion of their tax dollars go towards building and maintaining roads and they just turn back to their phones without a care ... but god forbid you want to take money directly out of the wallet for tolls ...

We're still paying for those bridges ... we're just at more remove so we can ignore it ...

In the next 50 years I hope we can grow out of this unhealthy dependence on the single-occupancy-vehicle ... no matter the population ...
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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby GordonH » Sep 7th, 2017, 9:40 am

spooker wrote:In the next 50 years I hope we can grow out of this unhealthy dependence on the single-occupancy-vehicle ... no matter the population ...


I highly doubt it, what will be different is more EV & fuel cell vehicles (I'm most interested in the fuel cell vehicle myself).

Especially with the unaffordable housing market in the Greater Vancouver area (Vancouver, Burnaby, North Shore etc... etc), causing buyers to go further away to buy a home i.e. Langley... Abbotsford etc... etc
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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby Old Techie » Sep 7th, 2017, 9:45 am

The Green Barbarian wrote:
JagXKR wrote:Ooooh another review. Who could have guessed that "reviews" would be the delay tactic for the party without a plan?

Anyone with a brain I would say.


Every action the NDP take (If you can even call it "action") is designed to line the pockets of as many NDP cronies as possible. Reviews are the best legal way to steal taxpayer cash, and have your trained seals clap along cheering. Just total BS. This crappy unelected NDP government can't fall fast enough.


Exactly! :up:
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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby maryjane48 » Sep 7th, 2017, 10:12 am

every action the bclibs took was to line pockets of their campaign donors to the detriment of the taxpayers of bc. atleast the ndp are willing to let experts look at how are money gets spent. :smt045
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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby Cactusflower » Sep 7th, 2017, 10:23 am

What needs to be included in the review is the reason for the removal of the tunnel in the first place. The BC Libs needed to get rid of it in order to dredge the river for their corporate donors. Hundreds of thousands of dollars were being channeled from bridge proponents and beneficiaries, including Fraser Surrey Docks ($14,575 donation to BCLP), Fraser River Pile and Dredge ($24,876), FortisBC(looking to expand their fracked gas operations at Tilbury LNG facility - $186,024).

Other big donors to the BC Liberal party are the contractors who were the lucky bidders on the bridge project, Gateway Mobility Solutions, Lower Mainland Connectors, and Pacific Skyway Partners.

Now, let's see the BCLP attack dogs try to refute these inconvenient truths. I don't do links, so don't ask for them. Use google to do your research.
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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby The Green Barbarian » Sep 7th, 2017, 10:26 am

Cactusflower wrote: The BC Libs needed to get rid of it in order to dredge the river for their corporate donors.


Thanks, now I spit coffee all over my computer screen laughing. This kind of nonsensical spin and out-right prevarication is why the NDP should never be allowed into power in the first place. The NDP and the Liberals both have to go. But the NDP needs to go first.
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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby Rwede » Sep 7th, 2017, 10:26 am

Horgan destroys more jobs in BC and destroys more infrastructure projects that are badly needed by the citizens of this province, just like the NDP did in the 1990s.


Image


This guy is a tragic, dangerous person in his current position.
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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby maryjane48 » Sep 7th, 2017, 10:29 am

Rwede wrote:Horgan destroys more jobs in BC and destroys more infrastructure projects that are badly needed by the citizens of this province, just like the NDP did in the 1990s.


Image


This guy is a tragic, dangerous person in his current position.

wheres your link as proof? crying doesnt prove anything except defeat
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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby LordEd » Sep 7th, 2017, 10:35 am

Cactusflower wrote:What needs to be included in the review is the reason for the removal of the tunnel in the first place. The BC Libs needed to get rid of it in order to dredge the river for their corporate donors. Hundreds of thousands of dollars were being channeled from bridge proponents and beneficiaries, including Fraser Surrey Docks ($14,575 donation to BCLP), Fraser River Pile and Dredge ($24,876), FortisBC(looking to expand their fracked gas operations at Tilbury LNG facility - $186,024).

Other big donors to the BC Liberal party are the contractors who were the lucky bidders on the bridge project, Gateway Mobility Solutions, Lower Mainland Connectors, and Pacific Skyway Partners.

Now, let's see the BCLP attack dogs try to refute these inconvenient truths. I don't do links, so don't ask for them. Use google to do your research.
Well on face value, you're saying that in addition to improving infrastructure, the removal of the tunnel has an economic benefit to allow more shipping of goods.

On deeper search, your first statement is false: http://www.news1130.com/2017/05/29/no-p ... r-vessels/
“The road and rail improvements that have been happening throughout the region for the last number of years are those that we think are good investments, but on the question of river depth, there are a number of constraints that would make a significant program to deepen the river very costly and potentially not commercially viable.”

He adds that would also require extensive environmental study.
With your first line being proven false, your conclusions on the additional items based on that lie are falsely grounded. You then add a second paragraph that I won't bother to research as your first two paragraphs are proven unreliable.

And with your last paragraph I can now discard anything you say as you won't back up your statements with links, and you are not reliable to interpret information.

Edit: errors

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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby LordEd » Sep 7th, 2017, 10:48 am

http://vancouversun.com/news/politics/n ... ge-project

Whatever happens will be “a new process” with more consultation and research to get buy-in from the community and Metro mayors, said Trevena. In the meantime, significant traffic gridlock around the tunnel is likely to continue in both directions for years.

“We haven’t made any decision on what is the best way forward, we need to be open to any recommendations that are provided to government by the review,” she told reporters.


“I would hope they would speed up the process,” said Delta South Liberal MLA Ian Paton. “We were in the bridge replacement office this morning and there has to be a dozen binders five-inches thick of documents and studies and engineering reports on why the bridge is the best answer.

“They could simply send the bridge review committee to study the 14,000 pages that have already been worked upon and come to the conclusion the bridge is the most sensible option.”

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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby christopher » Sep 7th, 2017, 11:11 am

Cactusflower wrote:What needs to be included in the review is the reason for the removal of the tunnel in the first place. The BC Libs needed to get rid of it in order to dredge the river for their corporate donors. Hundreds of thousands of dollars were being channeled from bridge proponents and beneficiaries, including Fraser Surrey Docks ($14,575 donation to BCLP), Fraser River Pile and Dredge ($24,876), FortisBC(looking to expand their fracked gas operations at Tilbury LNG facility - $186,024).

Other big donors to the BC Liberal party are the contractors who were the lucky bidders on the bridge project, Gateway Mobility Solutions, Lower Mainland Connectors, and Pacific Skyway Partners.

Now, let's see the BCLP attack dogs try to refute these inconvenient truths. I don't do links, so don't ask for them. Use google to do your research.


The 3 companies on the short list can build a 3 .5 billion dollar bridge did you review the list of bidders who do you recommend.
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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby Cactusflower » Sep 7th, 2017, 11:19 am

How convenient that you cherry-pick quotes from links to Post Media and other known BC Liberal supporters, but I'm rather surprised that the Vancouver Sun is still cheerleading for the BCLP now that it's no longer profitable for them to do so.......or is it?

At any rate, I see no reasonable rebuttal to my comment concerning the reasons for scrapping the tunnel and building a bridge to accommodate dredging of the Fraser River in order to allow more fossil fuel shipments from the coal and LNG terminals upriver. As usual, BCLP supporters' deflection takes over, hoping that pertinent comments will be buried before most people get to read them.

Oops, I see someone brought my comment to the forefront, and I'll be happy to reply. No, I haven't reviewed the entire list of bidders because I didn't think they were relevant since they weren't chosen. And I'm not interested anyway because I think the tunnel should be twinned, and more public transit add to that highway instead of adding more cars. There's no place to park once they get into town anyway.

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