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NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby christopher » Sep 7th, 2017, 11:28 am

Cactusflower wrote:How convenient that you cherry-pick quotes from links to Post Media and other known BC Liberal supporters, but I'm rather surprised that the Vancouver Sun is still cheerleading for the BCLP now that it's no longer profitable for them to do so.......or is it?

At any rate, I see no reasonable rebuttal to my comment concerning the reasons for scrapping the tunnel and building a bridge to accommodate dredging of the Fraser River in order to allow more fossil fuel shipments from the coal and LNG terminals upriver. As usual, BCLP supporters' deflection takes over, hoping that pertinent comments will be buried before most people get to read them.

Oops, I see someone brought my comment to the forefront, and I'll be happy to reply. No, I haven't reviewed the entire list of bidders because I didn't think they were relevant since they weren't chosen. And I'm not interested anyway because I think the tunnel should be twinned, and more public transit add to that highway instead of adding more cars. There's no place to park once they get into town anyway.


My point is that there is not a lot of contractors who will qualify for a 3.5 billion job. You may find 2 of the 3 on a list if they go for a tunnel.

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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby Cactusflower » Sep 7th, 2017, 11:39 am

Point taken, but why would any of those BC Liberal-friendly contractors get chosen if the NDP decided to go with an alternative to a 10-lane bridge?

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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby alfred2 » Sep 7th, 2017, 12:05 pm

Cactusflower wrote:Point taken, but why would any of those BC Liberal-friendly contractors get chosen if the NDP decided to go with an alternative to a 10-lane bridge?

because they are good , and ndp should not chose because of party friendly. :smt045
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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby OldIslander » Sep 7th, 2017, 12:13 pm

I've not been convinced one way or the other, which is best -- tunnel or bridge. But I'm not sorry we're going to have another look at it. While I'm not partisan, I developed a deep distrust of the Libs, and would like to see another cost/benefit analysis. This should happen before we commit to what will likely be, over $4B of our taxpayer dollars on a bridge that might be built in the wrong place for the wrong reasons. It won't cost us much to at the very least, have another 3rd party, sober reflection on the plan.

One wild card in this controversy, is a theory that the ‘real’ reason the Libs wanted to build such a massive bridge (height as well as 10 lanes wide...), is so the province can dredge that section of the Fraser River, permitting much larger ships to be piloted up-river for coal, LNG, lumber, etc. The Vancouver Port Authority says that simply isn’t true. http://www.delta-optimist.com/news/fraser-won-t-be-dredged-deeper-says-port-1.20208119

So why not put a new tunnel alongside the existing one, so there are 8 lanes total – 4 north and 4 south. This can apparently be done at a fraction of the cost of the behemoth proposed bridge. It would also be easier to add more lanes in the future, if and when required.

I don’t buy the earthquake argument – in this area, the silt is hundreds of meters deep. ‘The Big One’ could do just as much damage to bridge piers under a suspended bridge, as to tunnel sections, resting on a cushion of sand, on the bottom of the river – maybe more.

BTW, for a fascinating film on how the original tunnel was built -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1igKk8eK0M.
It ain’t HD, and it's early 60's corny, but it still does a really good job of showing how it was done.
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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby LordEd » Sep 7th, 2017, 12:14 pm

Cactusflower wrote:How convenient that you cherry-pick quotes from links to Post Media and other known BC Liberal supporters, but I'm rather surprised that the Vancouver Sun is still cheerleading for the BCLP now that it's no longer profitable for them to do so.......or is it?
You said to google. I did and I gave you my findings, entire link for review and portion relevant to my statement. You don't like the source I found? I like it a lot more than no source.

Counter with link, concede, or do nothing. Options 2 and 3 work in my favor because I can back up my statement.

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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby The Green Barbarian » Sep 7th, 2017, 12:23 pm

alfred2 wrote:because they are good , and ndp should not chose because of party friendly. :smt045


This was a problem during the last NDP reign of terror. They would only choose contractors who used unionized labour, and this resulted in the only bids coming in being horribly over-priced. Which is one of the main reasons nothing was built under the bumbling bozo NDP, along with their general incompetence and unwillingness to make a decision (while also lining the pockets of their cronies doing "studies").
Pierre Trudeau was an epic disaster for Canada. Like father like son.

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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby Cactusflower » Sep 7th, 2017, 12:30 pm

I'm aware of your replies to my comments. What I'd really like to see is your reply to the one just previous to yours. Any of you who prefer to have the tunnel removed and replaced by a 10-lane bridge needs to reply to Oldislander's comment. He even provided a couple of 'links'. :smt045

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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby The Green Barbarian » Sep 7th, 2017, 12:32 pm

Cactusflower wrote:
At any rate, I see no reasonable rebuttal to my comment concerning the reasons for scrapping the tunnel and building a bridge to accommodate dredging of the Fraser River in order to allow more fossil fuel shipments from the coal and LNG terminals upriver. As usual, BCLP supporters' deflection takes over, hoping that pertinent comments will be buried before most people get to read them.
.


What? Why wouldn't people want to allow more coal and LNG shipments? This leads to economic prosperity - more is good?
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Last edited by ferri on Sep 7th, 2017, 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby LordEd » Sep 7th, 2017, 12:42 pm

OldIslander's post includes some opinions not stated in a way to pretend they are facts, and a link to aid on some background. That link's content matches the one I used to counter your post.

In any case, my point is your post was uncited garbage based on a false premise that indicates you didn't bother to google it's validity, and has no useful purpose in this conversation.

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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby Cactusflower » Sep 7th, 2017, 3:44 pm

Your point is you don't have a point. You have no proof that any of the statements I made were incorrect; you simply stick to your usual partisan rants.

So I'll ask you again: Did the Fraser Surrey Docks not donate $14,545 to the BC Liberals? Did the Fraser River Pile and Dredge not donate $24,876 to the BC Liberals? Did FortisBC not donate $186,024 to the BC Liberals?

Not only should there be a review of the proposed Massey Bridge; there should also be a corruption inquiry into the whole BC Liberal process leading up to the signing of contracts and BC Hydro's initial construction.

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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby Old Techie » Sep 7th, 2017, 3:51 pm

Cactusflower wrote:Your point is you don't have a point. You have no proof that any of the statements I made were incorrect; you simply stick to your usual partisan rants.



Reeks of a classic case of pot calling kettle black.

Everything I've read emanating from you qualifies as partisan rants of the highest order.

People capable of backing up their positions are generally viewed as more credible.
"Just because some people are fueled by drama doesn't mean you have to attend the performance."

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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby rustled » Sep 7th, 2017, 4:25 pm

Cactusflower wrote:Your point is you don't have a point. You have no proof that any of the statements I made were incorrect; you simply stick to your usual partisan rants.

So I'll ask you again: Did the Fraser Surrey Docks not donate $14,545 to the BC Liberals? Did the Fraser River Pile and Dredge not donate $24,876 to the BC Liberals? Did FortisBC not donate $186,024 to the BC Liberals?

Not only should there be a review of the proposed Massey Bridge; there should also be a corruption inquiry into the whole BC Liberal process leading up to the signing of contracts and BC Hydro's initial construction.

Oooh, a game!

Did "the" Fraser Surrey Docks not donate $3,400 to the BC NDP? Why so much less than they gave the other party? Do they perhaps have less confidence in the BC NDP's willingness or ability to build infrastructure in BC? Or are they just a cheaper date than the other party?

Did Fortis not donate $81,590.00 to the BC NDP? Again, why so much less? Do they perhaps have less confidence in the BC NDP's willingness or ability to build infrastructure in BC? Or again, is it more difficult to buy the other party's favours? What does being the cheaper date mean in this context?

What does "the" Fraser River Pile & Dredge know that the other two don't know? Is it about local candidates, or were they just less willing to hedge their bets?

Let's speculate! :popcorn: Such fun!

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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby rustled » Sep 7th, 2017, 4:47 pm

OMG, do you have any idea how much money the BC NDP have collected from the Automotive Retailers Association? Or the Alliance of Beverage Licensees? Or the Association of Canadian Distillers? :130:

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Chiropractors' associations? Optometrists? Electricians! Taxi services! Propane companies! And *gasp* mines.

:panic: Who knows what they all hope to gain by donating to the BC NDP! Quick, call an inquiry! Call a review!

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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby LordEd » Sep 7th, 2017, 5:37 pm

Cactusflower wrote:You have no proof that any of the statements I made were incorrect;.

I have a statement saying they are not dredging deeper and a list of reasons. I have you saying the reason is dredging.

I don't care if you like that or think I'm ranting. That's for the undecided reader to decide whether your linkless rant has more validity than my linked rant, or if my link is enough to discredit your ability to interpret information.

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Re: NDP Massey Tunnel Review!

Postby Cactusflower » Sep 7th, 2017, 5:58 pm

Your links are hopelessly out-of-date, and my research is up-to-date. Which do you think makes for more informative reading? Actually, the Massey Bridge story has been dwarfed by the Port Mann investigation, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Massey tunnel/bridge review gets put on the back burner for now, and when it gets moved to the front, we'll see the Massey Tunnel twinned. The BCLP didn't leave any money in the kitty for mega-projects. That $2+ Billion was just another carrot they dangled in front of the electorate in the vain hope of getting reelected.
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