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First Nations look to NDP to reset relations

First Nations look to NDP to reset relations

Postby maryjane48 » Sep 6th, 2017, 8:45 pm

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Re: First Nations look to NDP to reset relations

Postby Cactusflower » Sep 7th, 2017, 12:21 pm

The second thing on the agenda, right after the wildfires, should be the sea pen Atlantic salmon farms. That WA State catastrophe has been swept under the rug by the Canadian governments, it seems. It needs to be brought forward at these meetings.

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Re: First Nations look to NDP to reset relations

Postby LordEd » Sep 7th, 2017, 12:33 pm

Cactusflower wrote:That WA State catastrophe has been swept under the rug by the Canadian governments, it seems.
It has? Are you sure? It seems to be all over this new thing called google. Here, have some links.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/local ... story.html
http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news ... b-c-waters

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/escaped-atlantic-s ... -1.3565963

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Re: First Nations look to NDP to reset relations

Postby Cactusflower » Sep 7th, 2017, 4:18 pm

Every one of those links are old news that was reported Aug 28, Aug 30, and Sept 5. Why bother posting links that have been read last week? It's a waste of my time. Everyone knows what happened down there; we just want to know what the Canadian governments are going to do about the sea pen farms on B.C.'s coast. Aside from asking fishermen to report catches of Atlantic salmon, I see nothing is being done. That's why the First Nations must get a straight answer from the BC government when they meet to discuss relations.

I know it's very difficult for a BC Liberal supporter to understand the importance of B.C.'s wild salmon, so I don't expect any relevant comments in the future either. Like I said, don't bother posting anymore links. I'm quite capable of doing my own up -to-date research.

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Re: First Nations look to NDP to reset relations

Postby hobbyguy » Sep 7th, 2017, 5:25 pm

It takes two to negotiate: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/two-decades-of-bc-treaty-flop/article15446054/?arc404=true

Two and a bit decades. Both NDP and Liberal governments. Almost no progress. Why?:

"Many other First Nations never participated in negotiations because they do not recognize the sovereignty of Canada over any part of their lives and territory."

SNIP

"Former B.C. premier Gordon Campbell got so fed up that he made an astonishing, if vague, offer to recognize aboriginal title holus-bolus. Very regrettably and rather foolishly, the aboriginal leadership backed away from exploring the offer."

"On the aboriginal side, there’s no ignoring the overlapping territorial claims made by First Nations. The B.C. Treaty Commission, charged with bringing governments and aboriginal groups together, spends some of its time trying to mediate among First Nations themselves."

"Then, there is what is euphemistically called the “capacity” challenge. Many of the First Nations that want to self-govern have very small populations. They struggle to negotiate, and given their numbers, they would struggle under a modern treaty to provide the range of services delivered by a self-governing entity."

A check of First Nations populations with complete final agreements or agreement-in-principle illustrates the challenge: Lheidli T’enneh (390 members), Tla-amin (1,030), Yale (160), In-SHUCK-ch (760), K’omoks (322), Tsimshian First Nations (4,034 members in five nations combined), Wuikinuxv (283, of whom 60 live on the reserve), Yekooche (220). Even these population statistics mislead, because children and the elderly would have to be subtracted to get a full picture of able-bodied people capable of delivering the services of a self-governing entity."

But still, some progress here and there: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/tlaamin-nation-treaty-finalized-1.3521493

"It means the community of more than 1,000 people are no longer governed by the Federal Indian Act and has the power to design its own laws and make its own land-use decisions."

That looks like a fair deal.

And http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2014/aadnc-aandc/R31-18-2013-eng.pdf the Tsawwassen agreement.

More important for the future is this: http://www.fnha.ca/ the first First Nations Health Authority in Canada (2013). That gives FNs a framework for smaller groups to tap into for health care, which on their own, they would struggle with. Provincial and Federal funding totals about $4.8 billion for the ten year agreement. So it seems decently funded, at least from the outside. FNs control the authority and its directions.

That FNs Health Authority solves one of the key "capacity" issues - assuming that the FNs can make it work - so far seems not too bad, only seen one negative story about it out there.

So much as many would like to characterize Liberal provincial governments as not being engaged, and Conservative federal governments as not being engaged, they indeed have been.

Many of the problems seem to not be a lack of willingness by provincial and federal governments of all stripes to negotiate and come to fair agreements. Rather it seems the process hits an impasse over internal FN politics.

Not the least of which is the notion of hereditary chiefs holding all the power. Even the very generous Nisga agreement made by Glen Clark was challenged in court by a hereditary chief - and the challenge was denied. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisga%27a_Final_Agreement

"The constitutional legality of the Nisga'a Final Agreement was challenged by some Nisga'a under Laxsgiik chief James Robinson (Sga'nisim Sim'oogit) and Mercy Thomas, particularly the self-government and law-making powers of Nisga’a government. On October 19, 2011 the Supreme Court of British Columbia handed down its decision upholding the constitutional validity of the Nisga’a Final Agreement."

There is a similar challenge ongoing with the Tsimshian where the elected signed an agreement with PNW LNG and a hereditary chief is challenging the agreement on the basis that only hereditary chiefs have the right to make such agreements.

So, in most cases, we have hereditary chiefs "negotiating" - or not. Is it in their self interest to reach treaty agreements when the hereditary chiefs then have to give up their power (and control over the purse strings)??

John Horgan may have good intentions, but "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". 23 years of trying and little to show for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_First_Nations_treaties_in_British_Columbia
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: First Nations look to NDP to reset relations

Postby Cactusflower » Sep 7th, 2017, 8:17 pm

Thanks for the history lesson on the BC First Nations treaties, HG, but that wasn't what I was looking for. Those open pen Atlantic salmon farms are a detriment to our whole coast, not just the First Nations territories. I don't think I'm wrong in expecting them to go to bat for us as well. They and Alex Morton have been working together to try to get those filthy pens out of coastal waters for years, and anything they discuss with Horgan's group will be beneficial to all British Columbians who care about saving our wild Pacific salmon...........I hope.
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Re: First Nations look to NDP to reset relations

Postby rustled » Sep 7th, 2017, 8:52 pm

Cactusflower wrote:Thanks for the history lesson on the BC First Nations treaties, HG, but that wasn't what I was looking for. Those open pen Atlantic salmon farms are a detriment to our whole coast, not just the First Nations territories. I don't think I'm wrong in expecting them to go to bat for us as well. They and Alex Morton have been working together to try to get those filthy pens out of coastal waters for years, and anything they discuss with Horgan's group will be beneficial to all British Columbians who care about saving our wild Pacific salmon...........I hope.

It will be interesting to see if this is a top priority for the First Nations conference.
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Re: First Nations look to NDP to reset relations

Postby Cactusflower » Sep 7th, 2017, 9:27 pm

Yes it will, rustled. Call me a cock-eyed optimist, but I think it will be a top priority, although they have many important things to discuss. Please don't tell me you hope I'm wrong.
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Re: First Nations look to NDP to reset relations

Postby maryjane48 » Sep 8th, 2017, 3:47 am

the only problem with hobbys history is it leaves out the important stuff. i know many of the hereditary cheifs from north west bc personaly as i grew up with them . gordon campbell did everything he could to not negotiate anything as has clark . they seemed to think the waving trinkets is the way to go even though its a continuation of a racist european model of deal making where the natives always lose.


but those days are coming to a end thanks to our priminister . his promises to first nations that he broke will point towards the ndp winning the big ticket in ottawa and if horgan plays his cards right in bc he will easily win next election .


people like hobby would rather see like john a macdonald a approach of beat the5 savages into shape than any true partnerships with first nations . there is no empathy just brutality
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Re: First Nations look to NDP to reset relations

Postby The Green Barbarian » Sep 8th, 2017, 7:05 am

maryjane48 wrote: and if horgan plays his cards right in bc he will easily win next election .


LOL - you know this isn't going to happen. Horgan and his gang of NDP thugs are going to get slaughtered in the next election.
Pierre Trudeau was an epic disaster for Canada. Like father like son.

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Re: First Nations look to NDP to reset relations

Postby Sparki55 » Sep 8th, 2017, 8:52 am

maryjane48 wrote:the only problem with hobbys history is it leaves out the important stuff. i know many of the hereditary cheifs from north west bc personaly as i grew up with them . gordon campbell did everything he could to not negotiate anything as has clark . they seemed to think the waving trinkets is the way to go even though its a continuation of a racist european model of deal making where the natives always lose.


Please enlighten us as to what the natives are looking for.
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Re: First Nations look to NDP to reset relations

Postby maryjane48 » Sep 8th, 2017, 1:54 pm

open your eyes . listen with your ears , accept with your heart. :130:
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Re: First Nations look to NDP to reset relations

Postby Rider59 » Sep 8th, 2017, 2:16 pm

maryjane48 wrote:open your eyes . listen with your ears , accept with your heart. :130:


Sounds like a patronizing comment one would make to the boy scouts. BTW, why is the acceptance only seem to be demanded from one side?

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Re: First Nations look to NDP to reset relations

Postby maryjane48 » Sep 8th, 2017, 2:19 pm

lol i dont know cowboy. maybe put your trinkets down and go have a chat instead of trying to bribe them :130:
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Re: First Nations look to NDP to reset relations

Postby maryjane48 » Sep 8th, 2017, 3:02 pm

Sounds like a patronizing comment one would make to the boy scouts. BTW, why is the acceptance only seem to be demanded from one side?
because it was your side doing the genocide :smt045
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