BCTF is not happy

Re: BCTF is not happy

Postby LordEd » Oct 3rd, 2017, 6:20 am

More money fixes everything...

But you can't give extra out of a hostage year. It becomes an expected entitlement.
LordEd
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3496
Likes: 2 posts
Liked in: 1995 posts
Joined: Apr 3rd, 2008, 9:22 am

Re: BCTF is not happy

Postby Leifer » Oct 3rd, 2017, 9:39 am

Teachers and the BCTF will never be "happy".

I was reminded of this two weeks ago at a dinner party. Full disclosure....these people are my wife's friends and not mine. I am simply a reluctant spouse along for the ride. :D
Anyhoo, a couple of the other guests are teachers (as is the host). Great people actually....until the topic of work comes up. The host was lamenting their return to "the grind" (They have a cottage in Ontario where they spend all summer). And then the whining and complaining started.
And so it went:

- No one works as hard as they do!
- No one gets paid so little for their level of education!
- No one works the kind of hours they put in!
- No one truly appreciates how frekkin great they are!

I kept my mouth shut and gave them a sympathetic nod to their terrible, terrible, burden of being an educator.

My wife and I are both University educated professionals. We both put in lots of hours every week and balance that with volunteering, coaching, and parenting our two children. We are busy...every day and almost every night. Just like allot of other professionals out there who quietly go about their lives "gettin er done".
Life is pretty damn good. Teachers have it pretty damn good....why don't they see that??
Last edited by Leifer on Oct 3rd, 2017, 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Two essential strategies for success.

1) Never reveal all you know
2)

2 people like this post.
User avatar
Leifer
Board Meister
 
Posts: 461
Likes: 196 posts
Liked in: 715 posts
Joined: Nov 19th, 2007, 9:43 pm
Location: West Kelowna

Re: BCTF is not happy

Postby Urban Cowboy » Oct 3rd, 2017, 9:44 am

Leifer wrote:Teachers and the BCTF will never be "happy".

I was reminded of this two weeks ago at a dinner party. Full disclosure....these people are my wife's friends and not mine. I am simply a reluctant spouse along for the ride. :D
Anyhoo, a couple of the other guests are teachers (as is the host). Great people actually....until the topic of work comes up. The host was lamenting their return to "the grind" (They have a cottage in Ontario where they spend all summer). And then the whining and complaining started.
And so it went:

- No one works as hard as they do!
- No one gets paid so little for their level of education!
- No one works the kind of hours they put in!
- No one truly appreciates how frekkin great they are!

I kept my mouth shut and gave them a sympathetic nod to their terrible, terrible, burden of being an educator.

My wife and I are both University educated professionals. We both put in lots of hours every week and balance that with volunteering, coaching, and parenting our two children. We are busy...every day and almost every night. Just like allot of other professionals out there who quietly go about there lives "gettin er done".
Life is pretty damn good. Teachers have it pretty damn good....why don't they see that??


I have no idea why they don't see that but it seems to be a common failing throughout the profession.

For some reason it's like they are all raised to believe they are special and better than everyone else.

Then we encounter them on forums wondering why they get disrespected. :dash:
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig."
- Robert A. Heinlein
User avatar
Urban Cowboy
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3715
Likes: 3560 posts
Liked in: 5413 posts
Joined: Apr 27th, 2013, 3:47 pm

Re: BCTF is not happy

Postby hobbyguy » Oct 3rd, 2017, 10:03 am

The BCTF is creating a "crisis" where none exists. They are ginning up a simple situation to fish for $$$ - our taxpayer $$$.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/shortage-of-teachers-an-incipient-crisis-provincial-union-president-says/article36465926/

"Education Minister Rob Fleming said some school districts have hired the required number of teachers while others have work to do.

"I know the districts are doing everything they can, as the employer, to continue to send the message out through their recruiting networks," he told reporters at the legislature in Victoria.

He said the ministry is open to a discussion about incentives to help increase the supply of teachers."

And their puppets, the BC NDP are playing right along with it. Rule number one in dealing with a union - never give them an inch* or they will take a mile! Next contract negotiations the BCTF will use this to say "we can't attract teachers because the pay is too low, and the need for incentives proves it." Fleming is either an incompetent boob or a willing participant in the BCTF scheming.

*as opposed to proper negotiating for win-win situations.

Scraping the bottom of the barrel for teachers will absolutely defeat the stated purpose of improving education by reducing class size (which within a range - and BC was already within that range, is very dubious notion). The quality of education will go down as poor teachers that could not "make the cut" in other jurisdictions pollute system. A class of 30 with a good teacher is better than a class of 25 with a doofus teacher.

The BCTF and the BC NDP continue to foul up the education system. Sad.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis
hobbyguy
Guru
 
Posts: 7844
Likes: 2115 posts
Liked in: 7923 posts
Joined: Jan 20th, 2011, 9:10 pm

Re: BCTF is not happy

Postby maryjane48 » Oct 3rd, 2017, 10:09 am

ndp creating jobs is a good thing :130: .. it seems the bclibs are now the party of no jobs :135:
User avatar
maryjane48
Buddha of the Board
 
Posts: 17124
Likes: 10586 posts
Liked in: 2667 posts
Joined: May 28th, 2010, 7:58 pm

Re: BCTF is not happy

Postby seewood » Oct 3rd, 2017, 10:24 am

[quote="maryjane48"]ndp creating jobs is a good thing .. it seems the bclibs are now the party of no jobs

Got it wrong MJ should be "creating NDP jobs a bad thing" Creating jobs on the taxpayer dime creates deficits unless taxes are raised to create the revenue to pay for the said NDP jobs. I'm thinking the financial burden on most British Columbians is such an increase in taxes might create financial hardship. Again, not a good thing, wouldn't you agree?
I am not wealthy but I am rich

Carrs Landing Viking likes this post.
seewood
Generalissimo Postalot
 
Posts: 762
Likes: 1219 posts
Liked in: 771 posts
Joined: May 29th, 2013, 2:08 pm

Re: BCTF is not happy

Postby hobbyguy » Oct 3rd, 2017, 10:31 am

maryjane48 wrote:ndp creating jobs is a good thing :130: .. it seems the bclibs are now the party of no jobs :135:


There is a huge difference between creating unnecessary government jobs (which sucks the life out the economy) and properly staffing government and its services. One can argue that the BC Libs were too tight in some areas, but the BC NDP are clueless and just want to hire more of their buddies.

Can you cohesively argue against the simple fact that a class of 30 (which is too high) with a good teacher is better than a class of 24 (which is low) with a bottom of the barrel scraped up reject teacher?
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

Carrs Landing Viking likes this post.
hobbyguy
Guru
 
Posts: 7844
Likes: 2115 posts
Liked in: 7923 posts
Joined: Jan 20th, 2011, 9:10 pm

Re: BCTF is not happy

Postby Urban Cowboy » Oct 3rd, 2017, 11:12 am

hobbyguy wrote:The BCTF is creating a "crisis" where none exists. They are ginning up a simple situation to fish for $$$ - our taxpayer $$$.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/shortage-of-teachers-an-incipient-crisis-provincial-union-president-says/article36465926/

"Education Minister Rob Fleming said some school districts have hired the required number of teachers while others have work to do.

"I know the districts are doing everything they can, as the employer, to continue to send the message out through their recruiting networks," he told reporters at the legislature in Victoria.

He said the ministry is open to a discussion about incentives to help increase the supply of teachers."

And their puppets, the BC NDP are playing right along with it. Rule number one in dealing with a union - never give them an inch* or they will take a mile! Next contract negotiations the BCTF will use this to say "we can't attract teachers because the pay is too low, and the need for incentives proves it." Fleming is either an incompetent boob or a willing participant in the BCTF scheming.

*as opposed to proper negotiating for win-win situations.

Scraping the bottom of the barrel for teachers will absolutely defeat the stated purpose of improving education by reducing class size (which within a range - and BC was already within that range, is very dubious notion). The quality of education will go down as poor teachers that could not "make the cut" in other jurisdictions pollute system. A class of 30 with a good teacher is better than a class of 25 with a doofus teacher.

The BCTF and the BC NDP continue to foul up the education system. Sad.


My money is on "willing participant in BCTF scheming."
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig."
- Robert A. Heinlein
User avatar
Urban Cowboy
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3715
Likes: 3560 posts
Liked in: 5413 posts
Joined: Apr 27th, 2013, 3:47 pm

Re: BCTF is not happy

Postby erinmore3775 » Oct 3rd, 2017, 11:36 am

I really think that a number of contributors here are letting old prejudices cloud their judgement. The "teacher shortfall" and resultant hiring problems are NOT the fault of the local Boards of Education or the BCTF, or teachers. It is the result of a bad policy of the former government that was overturned by the SCOC. The decision of the SCOC has mandated that teachers must be hired to raise the ratio of teachers and students to levels that were in effect before the previous government illegally changed them.

The BCTF and the local Boards have worked together to put in place solutions for the teacher/student ratios. Boards have worked to supply new classrooms. However, this process was not funded by the previous government until late in the spring, months after the SCOC decision.

The problem of finding workers for positions in the lower mainland is not unique to local school boards.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/help-wanted-what-the-labour-shortage-means-for-metro-vancouver-1.4317992

All employers are finding it difficult to find employees and there are job vacancies in the thousands

"From cooks to construction workers to tech gurus, the shortage of skilled labour is growing.The recent boom in B.C.'s tech sector means that it will be short an estimated 35,000 workers in the next five years, according to a recent study by the the BC Tech Association.The study found that a tech worker in B.C. makes on average $83,000 a year."Compared to the average wages in the Lower Mainland and across B.C., that's probably a 50-per-cent premium to what people typically take," Bill take," Bill Tam, the association's CEO, told host Stephen Quinn.
"That's a trend you want to see more people take advantage of."The high wages are offset by Vancouver's exceedingly high cost of living, which makes it a challenge to recruit from other cities, Tam said.The BC Rental Housing index estimates that 45 percent of renter households spend more than 30 per cent of their income on rent — the threshold that's considered unaffordable."

The previous government made an illegal policy decision. They fought the reversal of that decision all the way to the SCOC. Now the current government finds itself in a position not of their own making. They have to find the money to pay for the new teachers. However, the economic situation in the lower mainland means that they must consider incentives, like other employers to encourage teachers to come to BC.

The incentives, like loan forgiveness, housing allowances for northern communities, and increased starting salaries are all suggestions from the BCFT that mirror what other employers in the province are also suggesting. Thesenincentives seem reasonable given the situation. Yes BCTF is/was unhappy with this situation. Their unhappiness took them all the way to the SCOC. There they overturned the cause of their unhappiness. Currently they are working with Boards and the Ministry to solve the problem. However, the solution is going to cost money and much more money then what was saved by the previous government's bad and illegal policy decision.
"Justice will not come until those who are not injured are as indignant as those who are injured."
- Thucydides, Greek Philosopher

"You make a living by what you get; you make a life by what you give." - Winston Churchill
User avatar
erinmore3775
Übergod
 
Posts: 1058
Likes: 951 posts
Liked in: 1501 posts
Joined: Aug 18th, 2010, 9:16 pm

Re: BCTF is not happy

Postby LordEd » Oct 3rd, 2017, 12:21 pm

erinmore3775 wrote:I really think that a number of contributors here are letting old prejudices cloud their judgement
Agreed. Some of those articles and arguments from the last hostage cycle still piss me off.

Muzza likes this post.
LordEd
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3496
Likes: 2 posts
Liked in: 1995 posts
Joined: Apr 3rd, 2008, 9:22 am

Re: BCTF is not happy

Postby Urban Cowboy » Oct 3rd, 2017, 2:06 pm

erinmore3775 wrote:I really think that a number of contributors here are letting old prejudices cloud their judgement. The "teacher shortfall" and resultant hiring problems are NOT the fault of the local Boards of Education or the BCTF, or teachers. It is the result of a bad policy of the former government that was overturned by the SCOC. The decision of the SCOC has mandated that teachers must be hired to raise the ratio of teachers and students to levels that were in effect before the previous government illegally changed them.

The BCTF and the local Boards have worked together to put in place solutions for the teacher/student ratios. Boards have worked to supply new classrooms. However, this process was not funded by the previous government until late in the spring, months after the SCOC decision.

The problem of finding workers for positions in the lower mainland is not unique to local school boards.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/help-wanted-what-the-labour-shortage-means-for-metro-vancouver-1.4317992

All employers are finding it difficult to find employees and there are job vacancies in the thousands

"From cooks to construction workers to tech gurus, the shortage of skilled labour is growing.The recent boom in B.C.'s tech sector means that it will be short an estimated 35,000 workers in the next five years, according to a recent study by the the BC Tech Association.The study found that a tech worker in B.C. makes on average $83,000 a year."Compared to the average wages in the Lower Mainland and across B.C., that's probably a 50-per-cent premium to what people typically take," Bill take," Bill Tam, the association's CEO, told host Stephen Quinn.
"That's a trend you want to see more people take advantage of."The high wages are offset by Vancouver's exceedingly high cost of living, which makes it a challenge to recruit from other cities, Tam said.The BC Rental Housing index estimates that 45 percent of renter households spend more than 30 per cent of their income on rent — the threshold that's considered unaffordable."

The previous government made an illegal policy decision. They fought the reversal of that decision all the way to the SCOC. Now the current government finds itself in a position not of their own making. They have to find the money to pay for the new teachers. However, the economic situation in the lower mainland means that they must consider incentives, like other employers to encourage teachers to come to BC.

The incentives, like loan forgiveness, housing allowances for northern communities, and increased starting salaries are all suggestions from the BCFT that mirror what other employers in the province are also suggesting. Thesenincentives seem reasonable given the situation. Yes BCTF is/was unhappy with this situation. Their unhappiness took them all the way to the SCOC. There they overturned the cause of their unhappiness. Currently they are working with Boards and the Ministry to solve the problem. However, the solution is going to cost money and much more money then what was saved by the previous government's bad and illegal policy decision.


Excuse me, but have you forgotten which government was involved in that backroom deal that precipitated this whole event?

It's almost poetic justice that the NDP who started it, now have to deal with some of the fallout.

I'm with LordEd in that I'm still ticked off about the last hostage cycle.
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig."
- Robert A. Heinlein

Carrs Landing Viking likes this post.
User avatar
Urban Cowboy
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3715
Likes: 3560 posts
Liked in: 5413 posts
Joined: Apr 27th, 2013, 3:47 pm

Re: BCTF is not happy

Postby hobbyguy » Oct 3rd, 2017, 2:12 pm

The bad policy originated with the NDP and devious Dix. The Liberals tried to fix it, but were impatient and intemperate in the way they did it, and got snagged on a technicality.

The proper policy is that unions represent workers, and management manages. The lunatic BCTF don't want that, and that tells me that they are a terrible organization. Teachers should be ashamed of the BCTF.

So now we are stuck with the lunatics running the asylum, and the NDP enabling the lunatics.

Not a good situation. Really bad for the system as the BCTF sucks it budgets dry, protects poor teachers, and is forcing districts to hire more questionable ones.

So yup, I have a real bias against the lunatic culture of the BCTF, but not against the thousands of good teachers out there.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

2 people like this post.
hobbyguy
Guru
 
Posts: 7844
Likes: 2115 posts
Liked in: 7923 posts
Joined: Jan 20th, 2011, 9:10 pm

Re: BCTF is not happy

Postby LordEd » Oct 3rd, 2017, 3:03 pm

I don't even care about governments in this matter. Strictly those who claimed to be teachers and the type of responses given.
LordEd
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3496
Likes: 2 posts
Liked in: 1995 posts
Joined: Apr 3rd, 2008, 9:22 am

Re: BCTF is not happy

Postby GordonH » Oct 3rd, 2017, 3:11 pm

I am so broken up over BCTF not being happy, get over it buttercup (= BCTF) & deal with your own unhappiness to yourself.
Next up: 2018 Memorial Cup, May 17–27, 2018. Teams QJMHL Acadie-Bathurst Titan, OHL Hamilton Bulldogs, WHL Swift Current Broncos & Host Team/Regina Pats
User avatar
GordonH
Buddha of the Board
 
Posts: 19878
Likes: 2173 posts
Liked in: 6840 posts
Joined: Oct 4th, 2008, 7:21 pm
Location: Second star to the right and straight on 'til morning

Re: BCTF is not happy

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 10th, 2017, 12:16 pm

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/bc-teachers-union-points-to-challenges-amid-effort-to-fill-education-jobs/article37282112/

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/the-sick-day-scam/

Those two articles together show the circle of destruction the BCTF lunatics have created. Their partners in crime? The NDP and especially devious Dix and his dumb backroom deal with the BCTF.

We, and students, are still paying for the myopic stupidity of the 1990s NDP. - and "theeeeeir baaaack"!
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis
hobbyguy
Guru
 
Posts: 7844
Likes: 2115 posts
Liked in: 7923 posts
Joined: Jan 20th, 2011, 9:10 pm

PreviousNext

Return to B.C.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], CommonCrawl [Bot] and 4 guests