47957

Guaranteed income

Re: Guaranteed income

Postby Queen K » Nov 7th, 2017, 11:48 am

Poindexter wrote:
Queen K wrote:On this we can agree, the multi-generational welfare syndrome has got to be broken in the chain of access to education. Welfare leaves nothing in terms of disposable income towards an education fund. College fund? University fund? Trades School fund? I would almost guarantee no one on welfare can break the educational chain for their children very easily.

I'd like to hear from people who did it.


A good long term study called the The Abecedarian Project found that early childhood education was key in breaking the "cycle of poverty" you're describing.

http://abc.fpg.unc.edu/


Totally, of course it is. And people on welfare have got to have their kids motivated to get off of welfare, they have to set their children up to WANT to get off of it, but through education how else?
The NDP Government: 2017 thread is not in the Bickering Room. Money can't buy what I want for Christmas.
User avatar
Queen K
Queen of the Castle
 
Posts: 48406
Likes: 8643 posts
Liked in: 9496 posts
Joined: Jan 31st, 2007, 11:39 am
Location: What? You mean here?

Re: Guaranteed income

Postby Omnitheo » Nov 7th, 2017, 12:09 pm

Technology is set to replace a large number of jobs. Just because some new jobs will be created, doesn’t mean that there will be the same amount of jobs.

Look at horses. How many are in use today vs 100 years ago? It’s not because horses all got lazy and stopped walking. They just aren’t needed in the same numbers as vehicles, farming equipment etc has mostly replaced them.

Anyone who thinks we are immune to replacement by machines is fooling themselves. Everything from long haul trucking, to accounting to diagnosing and treating illness, to surgery, to music production to customer service is at risk of being replaced with automation.

You are not the unique snowflake you think you are, and chances are you could be easily replaced by a machine that can actually do your job better than you.

In the way we’ve seen smart phones proliferate across the globe and change computing and communications over the last decade, we will be seeing a similar mass paradigm shift over the next decade in regards to automation.
"The Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects all Canadians, every one of us, even when it is uncomfortable."
- Justin Trudeau

5 people like this post.
User avatar
Omnitheo
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3288
Likes: 4701 posts
Liked in: 2179 posts
Joined: Jul 19th, 2011, 9:10 am

Re: Guaranteed income

Postby LiamHaddock » Nov 7th, 2017, 2:10 pm

The Green Barbarian wrote:Expected by whom? Really stupid people?


LiamHaddock wrote:http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-universal-basic-income-2017-2
A link/article with some quotes from Elon musk on the issue. Worth a read imo.


The economic forecasts for the next several decades don't bode well for the American worker. In March, President Barack Obama warned Congress about the looming threat of job loss, based on several reports that found that as much as 50% of jobs could be replaced by robots by 2030.


Several links in that same article above. I have seen many articles expecting 30% or more global job loses. I hope I m wrong but things aren't looking good.
LiamHaddock
Übergod
 
Posts: 1461
Likes: 1121 posts
Liked in: 547 posts
Joined: Jul 1st, 2011, 7:07 pm

Re: Guaranteed income

Postby Glacier » Nov 7th, 2017, 2:24 pm

Omnitheo wrote:Technology is set to replace a large number of jobs. Just because some new jobs will be created, doesn’t mean that there will be the same amount of jobs.

Look at horses. How many are in use today vs 100 years ago? It’s not because horses all got lazy and stopped walking. They just aren’t needed in the same numbers as vehicles, farming equipment etc has mostly replaced them.

Anyone who thinks we are immune to replacement by machines is fooling themselves. Everything from long haul trucking, to accounting to diagnosing and treating illness, to surgery, to music production to customer service is at risk of being replaced with automation.

You are not the unique snowflake you think you are, and chances are you could be easily replaced by a machine that can actually do your job better than you.

In the way we’ve seen smart phones proliferate across the globe and change computing and communications over the last decade, we will be seeing a similar mass paradigm shift over the next decade in regards to automation.

People aren't horses. New jobs that you haven't thought about will crop up just as they did in the past. Automation does not mean fewer jobs. It never has and never will. It means some jobs will go away, but other jobs will take its place. At one time a large segment of the population worked as farmers. Today, it's 2%.

So we have more automation than ever before and yet more people than ever before working (women joining the workforce has increased the number of people working by a significant margin). There's no reason other than fearmongering and conservative "oh no, change is bad" thinking to come to the conclusion vast numbers of people will be out of work.

The Green Barbarian likes this post.
User avatar
Glacier
Admiral HMS Castanet
 
Posts: 25566
Likes: 2286 posts
Liked in: 7693 posts
Joined: Jul 6th, 2008, 9:41 pm

Re: Guaranteed income

Postby Woodenhead » Nov 8th, 2017, 3:14 am

Glacier wrote:New jobs that you haven't thought about will crop up


[icon_lol2.gif]
Wealth without work. Pleasure without conscience. Knowledge without character. Commerce without morality. Science without humanity. Politics without principle. Your bias suits you.
User avatar
Woodenhead
Guru
 
Posts: 5100
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 871 posts
Joined: Jun 2nd, 2009, 1:47 pm

Re: Guaranteed income

Postby Poindexter » Nov 8th, 2017, 6:48 am

^^ lol!
Not sure if Glacier's use of the word "crop" was intentional but either way it fits. [icon_lol2.gif]

Glacier likes this post.
User avatar
Poindexter
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 4838
Likes: 2702 posts
Liked in: 3236 posts
Joined: May 26th, 2008, 10:44 am

Re: Guaranteed income

Postby Sparki55 » Nov 8th, 2017, 8:13 am

Poindexter wrote:^^ lol!
Not sure if Glacier's use of the word "crop" was intentional but either way it fits. [icon_lol2.gif]


He's not far off from the truth; be careful before you mock.

Plenty of jobs have been created from technology advancements. Before the age of automation there were no jobs in TVs, cell phones, computers, 3D printers, 3D scanners, renewable energy solutions, etc. As advancements are made, our standard of living will go up and this change in standard of living will demand more jobs. Look at a modern home to a home that is 100 years old. Notice the addition of so many new tools; microwaves, furnaces! The future will see more people with more advanced equipment in their homes, think smart technology, robot vacuums, google home and new things which aren't invented yet.
Sparki55
Fledgling
 
Posts: 246
Likes: 300 posts
Liked in: 160 posts
Joined: Feb 24th, 2013, 1:38 pm

Re: Guaranteed income

Postby Verum » Nov 8th, 2017, 8:21 am

Sparki55 wrote:
Poindexter wrote:^^ lol!
Not sure if Glacier's use of the word "crop" was intentional but either way it fits. [icon_lol2.gif]


He's not far off from the truth; be careful before you mock.

Plenty of jobs have been created from technology advancements. Before the age of automation there were no jobs in TVs, cell phones, computers, 3D printers, 3D scanners, renewable energy solutions, etc. As advancements are made, our standard of living will go up and this change in standard of living will demand more jobs. Look at a modern home to a home that is 100 years old. Notice the addition of so many new tools; microwaves, furnaces! The future will see more people with more advanced equipment in their homes, think smart technology, robot vacuums, google home and new things which aren't invented yet.

And think robots who repair all of these, who build the house, who are better and smarter a their jobs than the majority of people who do repetitive tasks. Hell, they may even be smarter than people overall.
Here is an easy introduction to the problem/opportunity which despite it's cute animation is actually more serious than most:

An older but still relevant video:

We will be replaced by machines in pretty much every job we do and we will not be able to invent worthwhile jobs, which only humans can do, fast enough to not only replace the jobs lost but also add new jobs to meet the growing population. People keep denying it, but I have yet to find anyone who has any real understanding of the situation as an expert who thinks this will not come to pass in some fashion. The only thing experts seem to disagree on is the time scale.
"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." Explains why so few people reply to me, and why I might not reply

4 people like this post.
Verum
Fledgling
 
Posts: 322
Likes: 165 posts
Liked in: 258 posts
Joined: Oct 5th, 2017, 11:31 pm

Re: Guaranteed income

Postby Poindexter » Nov 8th, 2017, 8:33 am

That first video eplains it well...

...and just to explain my post, if you take "crops" literally it does point to a "growing" industry, that is until misguided government officials like our's in West Kelowna shut them down.
User avatar
Poindexter
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 4838
Likes: 2702 posts
Liked in: 3236 posts
Joined: May 26th, 2008, 10:44 am

Re: Guaranteed income

Postby Omnitheo » Nov 8th, 2017, 9:36 am

Verum you beat me to posting those.

New jobs do pop up, but not in the quantity to replace jobs taken by automation. All those fast food workers are not going to instead become software programmers. Taxi drivers web designers. Fruit pickers electronic technicians.

Many of the emerging jobs require considerably more education than the jobs that are being replaced by automation. Generally new industries are far more efficient than the old industries they replace, requiring fewer employees as well. Look at new Amazon jobs created vs the number of sears and other retailer jobs lost.
"The Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects all Canadians, every one of us, even when it is uncomfortable."
- Justin Trudeau

4 people like this post.
User avatar
Omnitheo
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3288
Likes: 4701 posts
Liked in: 2179 posts
Joined: Jul 19th, 2011, 9:10 am

Re: Guaranteed income

Postby Sparki55 » Nov 8th, 2017, 11:26 am


2 people like this post.
Sparki55
Fledgling
 
Posts: 246
Likes: 300 posts
Liked in: 160 posts
Joined: Feb 24th, 2013, 1:38 pm

Re: Guaranteed income

Postby Woodenhead » Nov 8th, 2017, 12:14 pm

Verum nailed it. It's just a matter of time, not if. It's a different ball game when tech has allowed machines to do everything a human can do, only better, and also autonomously. This is a paradigm shift in the making. Every argument against it is nothing more than Russell's Teapot and cherry picked historical trends which don't hold up or tell the whole story.
Wealth without work. Pleasure without conscience. Knowledge without character. Commerce without morality. Science without humanity. Politics without principle. Your bias suits you.

2 people like this post.
User avatar
Woodenhead
Guru
 
Posts: 5100
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 871 posts
Joined: Jun 2nd, 2009, 1:47 pm

Re: Guaranteed income

Postby Omnitheo » Nov 8th, 2017, 12:27 pm




580% increase in teaching and educational support assistants
183% increase in welfare, housing, youth and community workers
168% increase in care workers and home carers


The very jobs that many posters here refer to as being wasteful government funded drains on society.

Indeed as technology has replaced most manual labor, people have gone onto different careers. Society has shifted from being feudal and agrarian to capitalistic. However as those capitalist jobs are replaced by robots, it seems the new growing job sector is in “socialist” careers.
"The Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects all Canadians, every one of us, even when it is uncomfortable."
- Justin Trudeau
User avatar
Omnitheo
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3288
Likes: 4701 posts
Liked in: 2179 posts
Joined: Jul 19th, 2011, 9:10 am

Re: Guaranteed income

Postby The Green Barbarian » Nov 8th, 2017, 1:22 pm

why is it that leftist posters are always so negative about the future? Is it that they are just such giant wimps who always discount the abilities of those smarter and less lazy than they are? It just seems to be such a distinctive line - "we're all going to die and be homeless because of technology!!!" - say the lazy backward Leftists. "We're all going to be fine" say the people who depend on their own wits and intelligence.

In the end, we were always fine, and this has been going on for centuries.
Not sure why I bother with a signature as it seems to just randomly disappear on a regular basis. Especially if it offends liberal snowflakes.

Rider59 likes this post.
User avatar
The Green Barbarian
Buddha of the Board
 
Posts: 24136
Likes: 9332 posts
Liked in: 11205 posts
Joined: Sep 16th, 2010, 8:13 am

Re: Guaranteed income

Postby Rider59 » Nov 8th, 2017, 1:41 pm

Huh, here i guess i just wasted most of my life working and looking after me and my lot. Could have had the guberment look after me.
Rider59
Board Meister
 
Posts: 357
Likes: 206 posts
Liked in: 339 posts
Joined: Aug 17th, 2016, 9:02 am

PreviousNext

Return to B.C.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cactusflower and 7 guests