New ferry for B.C.

[alanjh595]

Maybe it never did hold 60 vehicles - the specs seem off.
I can't see it going from 400 passengers to 150 and 60 cars to 35. Or it has been refurbished since it was first built as a cargo ship.

Maybe they have to add a kitchen, an elevator, and some extra bathrooms? Just my thoughts. Probably have to make room for lifeboats and things of that nature.

[Fancy]

Thought about that and the fact that vehicle measurements here might be different from Europe.

[Cactusflower]

[quote="Queen K"]I went and clicked on and you're right. If the vessel in your link is the one that is really coming, then what is the vessel in the original link all about? And why the discrepancy? If there is a mix up somehow, I'd be more than happy to know about it.[/quote

My point was 'beware of Greeks, period'. If you go bargain-hunting in foreign countries, you might not get what you bargained for. Those German ferries weren't such a bargain either, were they? And we haven't had those Polish ferries long enough to find out what surprises they might have in store.

And to the usual suspects who will be bringing up the ferries that the NDP had built in B.C. 20+ years ago........Go ahead, make my day.

[seewood]

I think it is a good deal. Money well spent. A lot cheaper than designing and then building one here. I'd be concerned the ferry corporation would continually change the specs and the costs would climb. The Canadian Navy has this affliction as well.
I have a call into a ferry insider that might shed a bit more light on this...

[seewood]

And to the usual suspects who will be bringing up the ferries that the NDP had built in B.C. 20+ years ago........Go ahead, make my day

Hey they were a great idea. Not a ship building expert by any means but I do recognize the issues with an aluminum hull and steel fittings. Think it is called galvanic action? Just increases maintenance costs that's all.
Had super high tech MTU engines, lots of power there but stupid expensive fuel as the diesel had to be refined so much more that the cheap bunker C the rest of the fleet runs on.
It was a shame the ferries could only run a fraction of the route at its advertised service speed because of the wake it put out at those speeds. Annoyed all those wealthy folk on the waterfronts...
Fuel burn was off the charts when you push a displacement hull through the water at speed.
At least we got some money back on those, unlike the Site C if cancelled...

[JagXKR]

Knowing a bit about vehicles I would hazard a guess that indeed it is a matter of size. Drive around Greece and you don't find many F350 Super HD Super Cabs. Vehicles here are massive in comparison. This is the same in most parts of the world. Canada and the US are full of huge vehicles. Btw automatic transmissions are also far less common in Europe.

As for the number of passengers that is easily explained by configuration. The specs do not say 60 cars and 400 passengers. Just like a 737-800 series can have a seating capacity between 175-184 depending on configuration. Some ferries can be passenger only. That would make the 400 number seem reasonable. Also different regulations by different countries for safety reasons.

As for the government spending my money on a ferry that is newer than any car I own and one they got at a great price, thanks. Glad it wasn't wasted like the Fast Ferry debacle. That was, btw, and NDP program....remember.
(from a usual suspect)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Ferry_Scandal

[JagXKR]

More about this particular vessel. It was successful in it's routes but one of the companies had issues. Big ones.

https://www.greekpassengerships.com/aqua-spirit

Perfect fit for the route and money well spent. Could have ONLY happened during a non-NDP tenure.

[Cactusflower]

And to the usual suspects who will be bringing up the ferries that the NDP had built in B.C. 20+ years ago........Go ahead, make my day

Hey they were a great idea. Not a ship building expert by any means but I do recognize the issues with an aluminum hull and steel fittings. Think it is called galvanic action? Just increases maintenance costs that's all.
Had super high tech MTU engines, lots of power there but stupid expensive fuel as the diesel had to be refined so much more that the cheap bunker C the rest of the fleet runs on.
It was a shame the ferries could only run a fraction of the route at its advertised service speed because of the wake it put out at those speeds. Annoyed all those wealthy folk on the waterfronts...
Fuel burn was off the charts when you push a displacement hull through the water at speed.
At least we got some money back on those, unlike the Site C if cancelled...

Yeah, we got 10 cents on the dollar back thanks to Campbell's cruelty. He sold those ferries back to the builder for peanuts, and Seaspan resold them to Yemen (or some country in the Middle East, can't remember which one) for a large profit. Campbell did us no favours by doing this simply to spite the NDP.

[alanjh595]

You mean these ferries?

The Fast Ferry Scandal, also referred to as the Fast Ferries Scandal, "FastCat Fiasco", Fast Ferries Fiasco, was a political affair in the late 1990s relating to the construction of three fast ferries by the Canadian provincial crown corporation BC Ferries under direction of the British Columbia New Democratic Party then headed by premier Glen Clark.
Despite major delays and cost overruns, the ferries never fully met their original specifications, and only operated briefly in a reduced capacity, before being auctioned off at a substantial economic loss.
An audit was later conducted by BC Auditor General George L. Morfitt. The press called the final report perhaps the most damning report the BC Auditor General's office has ever issued.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Ferry_Scandal

[alanjh595]

Yeah, we got 10 cents on the dollar back thanks to Campbell's cruelty. He sold those ferries back to the builder for peanuts, and Seaspan resold them to Yemen (or some country in the Middle East, can't remember which one) for a large profit. Campbell did us no favours by doing this simply to spite the NDP.

JUST to Spite the NDP you say? Here's the inconvenient truth.

PacifiCat fleet[edit]
Main article: PacifiCat Series
The vessels built for BC Ferries were intended to improve ferry service between the mainland terminal of Horseshoe Bay (in West Vancouver) and the Vancouver Island terminal at Departure Bay (in Nanaimo).
The three vessels were built between 1998–2000 and were named as follows:
PacifiCat Explorer (1998)
PacifiCat Discovery (1999)
PacifiCat Voyager (2000)
Technically, PacifiCat Voyager was never part of the BC Ferries fleet, as it was christened but never commissioned; by the time this vessel was ready for deployment, the bottom had already fallen out of the Fast Ferry Program.
The vessels had a service speed of 37 knots (68 km/h) and a capacity for 250 car-equivalents and 1000 passengers. The hulls of all three vessels had slightly varying murals that depict a cougar.
Due to various oversights by the government, BC Ferries, design bureaus, and the shipyards, the cost of the program more than doubled from $210 million ($70 million/vessel) to almost $460 million ($150 million/vessel) and final delivery was almost 3 years behind schedule. As with all prototype construction this cost and build time was gradually being reduced with each successive completion. A large part of the delay was because the shipyards commissioned to construct the vessels had very little experience working with aluminum. Also design changes during construction caused delays and more costs. Previously, construction of aluminum vessels in British Columbia had been limited to fishing boats and special-purpose vessels. The construction of three dual-hulled 122.5 m catamarans represented a very large leap of faith by the Government in British Columbia shipyards.
The first fastcat began service between Horseshoe Bay and Nanaimo on June 1999 and the second fastcat began operating on November 1999.[3] The ferries had the following problems during their brief tenure:
High fuel consumption. The four 8,375 brake horsepower (6.2 MW) engines driving their waterjets required an inordinate amount of diesel fuel. Fully loaded and traveling at top speed of 34 knots/ 63 km an hour required the engines to be used at 90% power.
Due to an unusually wet and windy winter, there was a higher than normal amount of flotsam in the waters along the route, some of which was sucked into impellers for the ferries' engines, causing breakdowns and sailing cancellations.
When operated at full speed, the Pacificat fleet created a wake which was reported to have damaged waterfront wharves and property in coastal areas near the two terminals. This required that the ferries reduce speed in certain areas and alter course in others, reducing their speed advantage.
The air on vehicle decks became uncomfortably warm, either from the heat of the vessel engines or lack of air circulation. This made some people wary of bringing pets aboard the FastCats; however, the ferries had kennels with improved air circulation at the bow and stern of the vehicle decks.
There was little outside deck space for passengers. The existing ferries had large decks, and it was common for passengers to spend the entire sailing circling the decks of the ship or sunbathing on the lifejacket containers.
The ships had interiors that were perceived by passengers as being cramped compared to the existing ferries.
Loading took longer than the older ferries due to balancing issues. This further negated the ships' speed advantage.
After a change in leadership, the new Premier of BC, Ujjal Dosanjh, placed the ferries up for sale. A subsequent election virtually eliminated the New Democratic Party from the legislature, and Gordon Campbell of the BC Liberals auctioned off the PacifiCat fleet on March 24, 2003 for $19.4 million ($6.5 million/vessel) to Washington Marine Group. Further controversy erupted when it was revealed that the same company, which is a prominent financial backer of the Liberal Party, had offered $60 million for the vessels prior to the auction, on the condition that BC would then rent the ferries. Some claimed the aluminum ships were worth more as scrap. Others said the Indonesians were prepared to pay as much as $88 million.

[seewood]

Yeah, we got 10 cents on the dollar back thanks to Campbell's cruelty

Yea, that was low. I would have held out for 25 cents on the dollar.

[Cactusflower]

Yeah, we got 10 cents on the dollar back thanks to Campbell's cruelty

Yea, that was low. I would have held out for 25 cents on the dollar.

A good Premier would have kept them and had some alterations done, just as they had planned to do with this questionable Greek ferry. At least they knew those ferries were built locally and what was needed to make them work in our coastal waters. Seems they have bought a pig in a poke with this Greek ferry.

[JagXKR]

Seems they have bought a pig in a poke with this Greek ferry.

Wrong. Successful ferry, as I posted. Company problems not ferry problems.

"after a very successful stint on the inter-Cyclades service"

[Cactusflower]

Seems they have bought a pig in a poke with this Greek ferry.

Wrong. Successful ferry, as I posted. Company problems not ferry problems.

"after a very successful stint on the inter-Cyclades service"

I guess we'll just have to wait and see, won't we?

[maryjane48]

I fully expect john horgan to swim across with passangers on his back. He is that dedicated to folks of bc