BC company firefighting in California

Re: BC company firefighting in california

Postby LordEd » Dec 9th, 2017, 7:24 pm

Funny, I thought the main criticism was not using the Mars. Now that others aren't using it and it's mothballed, are you retracting your negative assessments?
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Re: BC company firefighting in california

Postby seewood » Dec 9th, 2017, 7:47 pm

On Saturday, July 18, the Martin Mars flying boat completed its first mission under their new 30-day contract with the British Columbia Wildfire Service. According to Coulson Flying Tankers, the owner of the water-scooping air tanker that can hold up to 7,200 gallons, the aircraft flew a total of 8 hours. Of that, 4 was spent ferrying across the province and back, and the other 4 was used to drop 9 loads of water for a total of 52,800 gallons. They did it without having to land and refuel.

Yeup, my bad. this was 2015. :1422: Regardless, the thing is way too expensive on a per gallon or liter basis.

maryjane48 wrote:As far bclibs. Conair donated to bclibs wayne didnt

Don't think that was it at all. Did Airspray, An Alberta company, donate to the libs? They had a number of Electra's on fires this year.
From an interview back in July: Earlier on Monday, we published an article about the availability of the Martin Mars water bomber and other members of the Coulson Aviation fleet that are used to fight wildfires.

Wayne Coulson, who is the President and CEO of Coulson Aviation, spoke with us on Monday to go more in depth about why his fleet isn't aiding the efforts against the B.C. wildfires, but instead fighting wildfires in the U.S.
KN: What are the costs for these planes? Is there anything you can tell me about how much it costs to run it for one day fighting these fires? I know people are obviously always concerned about where we're spending taxpayer dollars, but would your fleet cost more than what they are using now? Or is it similar?

WC: What I can say, just because it is hard for people to compare, is that it is significantly less than what the US government pays. Just the markets right.

So why would Wayne push for a Canadian contract when he gets more per hour plus a 25% dollar exchange bonus when flying in the States? All the spares(parts) and any American pilots have to be paid in American dollars.
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Re: BC company firefighting in california

Postby maryjane48 » Dec 9th, 2017, 9:53 pm

Why would wayne not want to expand ? You left out australia and indonesia where he also operates. Plus alaska, plus his logging contracts :130:

But we do know conair infact did donate to the libs as far as other companies the bclibs hired. Who knows but im sure theres money trail somewhere :130:
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Re: BC company firefighting in california

Postby Drip_Torch » Dec 9th, 2017, 10:32 pm

seewood wrote:On Saturday, July 18, the Martin Mars flying boat completed its first mission under their new 30-day contract with the British Columbia Wildfire Service. According to Coulson Flying Tankers, the owner of the water-scooping air tanker that can hold up to 7,200 gallons, the aircraft flew a total of 8 hours. Of that, 4 was spent ferrying across the province and back, and the other 4 was used to drop 9 loads of water for a total of 52,800 gallons. They did it without having to land and refuel.Yeup, my bad. this was 2015. Regardless, the thing is way too expensive on a per gallon or liter basis.


Oh, okay - so the NDP didn't do it. As much as I've already said I think the mars is done, I still see a bunch of fuzzy logic surrounding it. 9 loads with the mars is 20.25 rounds with a four plane, AT 802, group. Four hours ferry time to and from target, so what? That happens with every plane in the fleet, from time to time.

The mars started flying in 1959. Looking at the top 10 years for hectares lost.
1958 - 894,491 (no mars)
1961 - 483,097
2014 - 369, 168 (no mars)
1971 - 351,342
1982 - 348,695
1950 - 343,339 (no mars)
2010 - 337,149
1985 - 312,757
2015 - 280,738 (mars only flew 8 hours)

2017 - 1,215,503 (no mars)

Five of top 10 fire loss years, in the last 70 years, have happened in the 13 years the MARS didn't fly. Oh my god! How do you explain that? Lol... I can engage in magic thinking and fuzzy logic too.

So why would Wayne push for a Canadian contract when he gets more per hour plus a 25% dollar exchange bonus when flying in the States?


Really, that's a question? Free enterprise, economies of scale, market share, season duration... yada, yada, yada - call it an exercise in capitalism sans cronyism.
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Re: BC company firefighting in california

Postby Urban Cowboy » Dec 9th, 2017, 11:14 pm

Drip_Torch wrote:Five of top 10 fire loss years, in the last 70 years, have happened in the 13 years the MARS didn't fly. Oh my god! How do you explain that? Lol... I can engage in magic thinking and fuzzy logic too.


Which apparently you are, given that there's this little thing called "weather", that has an effect on how many fires there are in a season, and zero to do with whether the mars flew or not.

Might be as simple as the years with less loss just happened to be wetter, and in the drier years far more stuff burned. What a concept eh?
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Re: BC company firefighting in california

Postby Dizzy1 » Dec 9th, 2017, 11:30 pm

maryjane48 wrote:

Im confident wayne and john are working something out so bc has night flight drop cabability as the bclibs ignoring of the report prepared helped get us to a bad situation.

The BC Government (regardless of who's in power) has no say in Transport Canada regulations and it still has not been established that Coulson's night vision system has been certified in Canada - no matter how much that simple fact crushes your silly fantasy.
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Re: BC company firefighting in california

Postby Drip_Torch » Dec 9th, 2017, 11:31 pm

Old Techie wrote:Which apparently you are, given that there's this little thing called "weather", that has an effect on how many fires there are in a season, and zero to do with whether the mars flew or not.Might be as simple as the years with less loss just happened to be wetter, and in the drier years far more stuff burned. What a concept eh?


What a concept - indeed. Glad you recognize it.

Might be as simple as this little thing called the fire propagation curve too. You know, time + fire = risk. Perhaps, 80 little loads delivered over a longer duration isn't always the same as 9 big loads - even though the pedestrian math says it is.

Truth be told, it's a dynamic situation and likely the combination of a number of factors including, global warming, a culture of disengagement and rigid institutional beliefs, etc...

Or hey, maybe it's just the weather. [icon_lol2.gif]
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Re: BC company firefighting in california

Postby Urban Cowboy » Dec 9th, 2017, 11:44 pm

The professionals in that line of work have determined that the smaller planes are more effective, and safer for the ground workers. Since I'm not a firefighting professional I leave such decisions up to the ones who are.

Having observed them fight a fire no further than half a mile away from me this past summer, I'd say they did a fine job and were quite impressive to watch.
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Re: BC company firefighting in california

Postby Drip_Torch » Dec 9th, 2017, 11:56 pm

Old Techie wrote:The professionals in that line of work have determined that the smaller planes are more effective, and safer for the ground workers. Since I'm not a firefighting professional I leave such decisions up to the ones who are.


Ugh, no. The word is "efficient" - you, and a number of people like you, hear effective. They are more efficient due to a number of factors; they can use smaller bodies of water, land on a runway, drop retardant, get into tighter areas, use a more common fuel... etc. They are more versatile - making them more efficient. They are not always more effective, in fact, in a number of conditions they aren't effective at all, but don't let that surprise you, because under certain conditions none of the current aircraft are effective.

The Canadian Forces Chinook proved to be an effective aircraft. It delivered an RCMP car from Williams Lake to the top of Big White. Does that help illustrate what I'm trying to get across to you?

Old Techie wrote:Having observed them fight a fire no further than half a mile away from me this past summer, I'd say they did a fine job and were quite impressive to watch.


Totally agree! Fire boss groups run a tight show, are a pleasure to watch, and are effective in a narrow range of fire conditions, - with the right mission plan.
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Re: BC company firefighting in California

Postby maryjane48 » Dec 10th, 2017, 1:20 pm

From wayne on the aussie contracts

Sunday Dec 10th was the final day of Thor’s 100 day contract with the New South Wales Rural Fire Service. We would like to thank everyone in the RFS and the people at the Richmond Air Force base for the excellent support. We look forward each season to joining our friends in the agency and the community that welcomes us with open arms every fire season. Farewell to all!

Thor will now be heading down to Victoria State to fill in for T-390 as we begin our contract Dec 13th.

Our other Hercules is still in Southern California supporting the team at CALFIRE. The firefighters had another productive day Saturday and are hoping for another good day on Sunday.

Making bc proud down under
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Re: BC company firefighting in California

Postby maryjane48 » Dec 11th, 2017, 4:16 pm

T-133 working a fire in southern cali making bc proud wayne :130:
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Re: BC company firefighting in California

Postby rookie314 » Dec 11th, 2017, 4:44 pm

Big Whoop. Alpine has been in the US since 1997 and Wildcat has been in Aus since 2003. Typical Coulson, "look at ME!!!"

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Re: BC company firefighting in California

Postby Drip_Torch » Dec 11th, 2017, 6:00 pm

rookie314 wrote:Big Whoop. Alpine has been in the US since 1997 and Wildcat has been in Aus since 2003. Typical Coulson, "look at ME!!!"


Cool... so Alpine has been in the US since 7 years after Coulson.

Want a link to the RJ's facebook page in Australia? Its been playing a drum roll while counting down the minutes until it arrives on Wednesday. Lol.

Seems all the aviation companies have a claim to fame. Wildcat... more repels, Alpine... more bells, Coulson... more haters. Conair... more cronies. I don't see much difference between them. Some lead, some follow - some get it done, others talk about it.

Just like every other industry under the sun.

(Disclaimer: When I go virtual tanking the latest modis detections on the Thomas fire tonight out of KSBA, I'll probably be flying Airspray 489. I could use Conair's RJ 466, or Conair's Convair 47. Coulson's C-130 is still waiting on a paint job in my virtual paint shop. :up: )
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Re: BC company firefighting in California

Postby maryjane48 » Dec 12th, 2017, 11:43 am


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Re: BC company firefighting in California

Postby maryjane48 » Dec 14th, 2017, 5:10 pm

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