Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby Cactusflower » Dec 14th, 2017, 12:31 am

I posted a link to this on another thread, but have some new info to pass on. Fin Donnelly, Fisheries critic in Ottawa has given me a link to his campaign to #SaveWildSalmon:
http://findonnelly.ndp.ca/protect-west- ... ild-salmon

If you are interested in getting open net salmon farms out of our coastal waters and onto land-based containment, please sign the petition.
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby maryjane48 » Dec 14th, 2017, 1:26 pm

From you guessed it fishfarms, :200:
new study states that large numbers of wild salmon are being infected with a virus coming from fish farms.

Biologist Alexandra Morton has studied whether Atlantic salmon raised in open-net pens along the B.C. coast are infected with the piscine reovirus (PRV). Since the farms weren’t keen on her sampling live fish she had to get creative.


https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalnews. ... farms/amp/


But the govts known this,whole time .they just choose look the other way

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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby Rwede » Dec 14th, 2017, 3:22 pm

maryjane48 wrote:But the govts known this,whole time .they just choose look the other way


With all that money donated to the BC NDP by fish farms and fish farm unions, you can bet your last dollar that Horgan will look the other way on this.

Disgusting!
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby maryjane48 » Dec 14th, 2017, 3:25 pm


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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby maryjane48 » Dec 14th, 2017, 5:17 pm

Well he already got me mad over the dam rwede and if he ignores this hes going to hear about it. Bclibs didnt do anything for 16 years, either so whens your post of outrage at them going to be made ? We can have common ground here if your willing to be unbiased :130:
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby Cactusflower » Dec 14th, 2017, 7:33 pm

maryjane48 wrote:https://www.desmog.ca/2017/12/14/fish-farms-viral-hotspot-infection-b-c-s-wild-salmon-new-study-finds

More on the new,study results


Excellent link, mj. And remember, it was the Conservative AND Liberal MPs that voted against Donnelly's Bill-228. He is still fighting the DFO to try to get those open net pens out of the water and onto land. We really need to join his campaign. Have you signed the petition yet?

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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby maryjane48 » Dec 14th, 2017, 7:45 pm

Yes it was,signd when i saw it . But i been arguing against this since long time ago
If they on land fine but in our ocean nope :smt045

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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 16th, 2017, 4:20 pm

While there are a few, somewhat out there, scientists that maintain the fish farms are the big reason for wild fish declines, the fish farms have near zero effect on Steelhead.

So if you look at what causes the decline in Steelhead populations, you get to the real roots of the problem.

1) Estuary habitat loss and degradation.
2) Over fishing, including over fishing of prey species
3) Competitive and/or predatory species brought into their ocean cycle ranges by warming oceans

The list is quite long. But those 3 are the ones that I would put at the top. Relative to those three, the fish farm issues are little more than a distraction, in fact fish farms help with point 2, thereby balancing off some of their negatives.

It isn't nearly as simplistic as many would like you to believe. Many of the effects are cumulative. Like what is the cumulative effect of goofs in Victoria dumping raw sewage into the ocean? What are the cumulative effects of dumping treated sewage effluent into the water?

IF you really want to do something about the sad state of wild salmon and steelhead stocks, attacking the fish farms may be a convenient "feel good" target, but it will only distract from the real issues.
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby Cactusflower » Dec 16th, 2017, 4:42 pm

^^Just click on the link I provided for Fin Donnelly's site and join the campaign, okay HG? Everyone knows of the various threats to our wild salmon. The fact of the matter is that the DFO in Ottawa couldn't care less about the Pacific coast, so we must rely on MP Donnelly, the NDP critic of Fisheries and Oceans to make our voices heard. I know how much you hate the NDP but for once just swallow your hatred and do something to save our wild salmon........please.
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 16th, 2017, 8:06 pm

Cactusflower wrote:^^Just click on the link I provided for Fin Donnelly's site and join the campaign, okay HG? Everyone knows of the various threats to our wild salmon. The fact of the matter is that the DFO in Ottawa couldn't care less about the Pacific coast, so we must rely on MP Donnelly, the NDP critic of Fisheries and Oceans to make our voices heard. I know how much you hate the NDP but for once just swallow your hatred and do something to save our wild salmon........please.


Actually, I won't. As I detailed, this is little more than a distraction. I won't support myopic and obvious political populism pandering. You could shut down all the salmon farms and it would accomplish precisely zero.

This is just pandering to the permanent protestor crowd for the purposes of vote mining.

IF on the other hand, a reasonable plan that would address the real issues that need to be addressed were put forward, then I would. But that's not what Finn and crew are up to.
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby Cactusflower » Dec 17th, 2017, 3:21 pm

^^Why am I not surprised? You've admitted that our wild salmon and steelhead are endangered by habitat loss, over-fishing and a host of other things, but yourefuse to believe that open net salmon farms are one of the reasons for the near-extinction of our wiid salmon. Why? Because environmentalists, First Nations, and an NDP MP have said that they are.

At some point, the environment must trump ideology, and IMO we have reached that point.

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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 17th, 2017, 8:07 pm

Cactusflower wrote:^^Why am I not surprised? You've admitted that our wild salmon and steelhead are endangered by habitat loss, over-fishing and a host of other things, but yourefuse to believe that open net salmon farms are one of the reasons for the near-extinction of our wiid salmon. Why? Because environmentalists, First Nations, and an NDP MP have said that they are.

At some point, the environment must trump ideology, and IMO we have reached that point.


No, I stated why. The salmon farm issue is a minor net contributor, IF at all, as some studies run entirely contrary to Morton's constant drumbeat, including ones I read from Norway.

IF somebody was out for a ban on further waterfront development in the Fraser Delta, and restoration of as much as possible, then THAT is something I could get behind. Or a substantial, if not moratorium altogether on commercial fishing - including baitfish like herring.

But nobody is advocating for those things, because they will lose votes.
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby Cactusflower » Dec 17th, 2017, 10:36 pm

hobbyguy wrote:
Cactusflower wrote:^^Why am I not surprised? You've admitted that our wild salmon and steelhead are endangered by habitat loss, over-fishing and a host of other things, but yourefuse to believe that open net salmon farms are one of the reasons for the near-extinction of our wiid salmon. Why? Because environmentalists, First Nations, and an NDP MP have said that they are.

At some point, the environment must trump ideology, and IMO we have reached that point.


No, I stated why. The salmon farm issue is a minor net contributor, IF at all, as some studies run entirely contrary to Morton's constant drumbeat, including ones I read from Norway.

IF somebody was out for a ban on further waterfront development in the Fraser Delta, and restoration of as much as possible, then THAT is something I could get behind. Or a substantial, if not moratorium altogether on commercial fishing - including baitfish like herring.

But nobody is advocating for those things, because they will lose votes.


Please show me one study (that doesn't have Marine Harvest's name on it) that refutes what Alex Morton and many other marine biologists have been telling us for years about the effects of open net salmon farms on wild salmon.
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 18th, 2017, 12:20 pm

Actually, the way that salmon farms are operated in general makes no sense. So it doesn't matter to me if they are open pen, closed pen, or on land. The real problem is that fish farming is generally destructive in the long term, wherever predatory species are what is being farmed.

If I recall correctly, it takes about 3 lbs of wild fish (mostly baitfish) to yield 1 lb of farmed salmon. There is precisely zero sustainability in that.

I think that the impact of whether or not salmon farming is open sea pen or closed sea pen or on land closed system makes little difference to the real damage caused.

There are SO many other factors that even the experts don't seem to have any definitive answers. However, ocean ranching seems to be a far larger problem, as is habitat destruction, and invasions by other species due to climate change.

https://www.biv.com/article/2017/5/whats-destabilizing-bcs-wild-salmon-stocks/

“The abundance of pink salmon is not at all affected by those fish farms, no matter what anybody says,” said Dick Beamish, a retired Pacific Biological Station fisheries scientist. “That could be easily demonstrated, and it has been.”

Some scientists fear that the attention activists have focused on the fish farm issue might be diverting attention from climate change, ocean ranching and other threats that deserve at least as much scrutiny as fish farms.

“Fish farms obviously should draw some attention, but they shouldn’t be the main focus,” said Randall Peterman, professor emeritus at Simon Fraser University and a senior scientist with the university’s Quantitative Fisheries Research Group. “There are lots of other things going on out there that we may or may not be able to influence.”

Note that this years are only two cycles removed from 2009. Why might that be significant? https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/the-short-lived-invasion-of-the-salmon-snatchers/article4327980/

Yup, Humbolt squid are suspected as having had a major impact on salmon in 2009.

"Earlier this year, fishery biologist John Field of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration in Santa Cruz, Calif., confirmed for the first time that the Humboldt squid have developed a taste for salmon - with the discovery of otoliths, the ear bones of salmon, in their stomachs.

The Humboldt squid, which can grow to two metres in just two years, are opportunistic feeders: They'll eat each other and have been found with seabird feathers in their stomachs.

However. the Humboldt squid prefer smaller prey than a full-grown salmon. While they are feeding on juvenile salmon, he believes the more significant link between the squid and salmon populations may be ocean conditions."

That comment brings in this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blob_(Pacific_Ocean)

IF you read past the headlines about fish farms that the likes of Morton like to generate, the problems facing BC are much more diverse, and much more significant elsewhere. It is highly simplistic to suggest that "fish farms are the problem", when in fact fish farms are both a symptom and a perhaps a minor contributor to a much larger problem set.

In the end, it is all a function of overpopulation by humankind. WE, as a species, are removing far too much biomass from the oceans. WE, as a species, have overpopulated our little island in space. WE, as a species, have to accept that we can no longer continue with high animal protein diets. There are simply too many of us to support that kind of diet.

That doesn't mean we have to eliminate meats and fish from our diets. Everything in moderation. Smaller portions of animal protein and intersperse with vegetarian dishes (stir fry dishes can be very tasty and satisfying).

The only way that wild stocks of salmon and steelhead can survive is if WE stop eating them, and what they eat - and stop degrading their habitat. The "fish farm" controversy is little more than a tiny diversion to make folks feel "I can do something" while they continue to eat farmed and wild salmon.
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby Glacier » Dec 18th, 2017, 12:41 pm

The steelhead eat oolichan, and the shrimp fishery has absolutely decimated oolichan stocks because they are a bycatch of the shrimp harvest.
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