Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby Cactusflower » Dec 18th, 2017, 12:04 pm

^^Yes, you definitely are the 'research guru', HG, and I appreciate all that you do, believe me. But even those of us who have decreased our consumption of meat and fish, and have done our part in not over-populating planet Earth, still feel the need to do more. And since we can't realistically eliminate the Humbolt squid from our oceans, we must try to do something that we have a chance at being successful at, and that is stopping Marine Harvest and other Atlantic salmon farms from polluting our coastal waters, causing the over-fishing of sub-species, and endangering the wild salmon stocks that remain.

BTW, you mentioned that fish hatcheries (mainly in Asia) are causing an abundance of pink and chum salmon in our ocean. Since the least desirable salmon on the market are these two species, how does that abundance relate to the dwindling stocks of Chinook and Sockeye? Actually, my favourite salmon is the Coho, but I rarely see it in the marketplace. Perhaps you've researched that as well?
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby Cactusflower » Dec 18th, 2017, 12:09 pm

Glacier wrote:The steelhead eat oolichan, and the shrimp fishery has absolutely decimated oolichan stocks because they are a bycatch of the shrimp harvest.


Good point. Those shrimp draggers should be banned. It's not just the oolichans they wipe out; it's everything between the sea floor and the surface..
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 18th, 2017, 3:13 pm

CF - perhaps you need to just stop and think about it. The diets of pink and chum salmon overlap with the diets of other salmon types.

So the Alaskan, Russian, Japanese and other "fish ranchers" release billions and billions of hatchery fish (with so-so genetics) into the north Pacific. The very same waters that wild stocks are feeding in. At the same time the quantity of feed for all salmon is being degraded by bait fish fisheries (which hardly anyone pays attention to) and by dragger by-catch etc.

There is generally a lot less food out there, and now Alaska alone dumps 1.5 billion "ranch" hatchery fish into that system. That would be rather like suddenly transporting the entire population of China into BC and Alberta - and that's just what Alaska does.

That dramatically increases the competition for increasingly rare food supplies for the wild salmon. In total the number of "ranch" salmon put into the north Pacific is something like 4.5-5 billion. It is a mugs game of flooding a limited food source with fish so that the returns are to YOUR country. The returns from the 1.5 billion fish Alaska dumps into the north Pacific? About 30 million fish that return. About a 2.5% return rate.

That poor return rate reflects the strategy, flood the "range" with your mediocre stock, and nobody else's has a chance. In a sense it is an old fashioned free for all range war. The big "herd" strips the food away, and leaves nothing for other species or smaller "herds".

Then the second half of the "ranching" strategy comes into play. Because there are "so many fish" in Alaskan waters, they get a free rein in harvesting the fish. The result is that the salmon "ranchers" are intercepting and decimating wild stocks not only in Alaska, but in BC as the salmon use the same migration routes.

In essence, what we are seeing is that the north Pacific is being "strip mined" for biomass. Wild salmon and Steelhead don't have a chance.

You should also be aware that the "salmon ranchers" absolutely hate the competition from fish farms, and do everything their big $$$ can do to discredit fish farms.
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby Cactusflower » Dec 18th, 2017, 3:23 pm

hobbyguy wrote:CF - perhaps you need to just stop and think about it. The diets of pink and chum salmon overlap with the diets of other salmon types.

So the Alaskan, Russian, Japanese and other "fish ranchers" release billions and billions of hatchery fish (with so-so genetics) into the north Pacific. The very same waters that wild stocks are feeding in. At the same time the quantity of feed for all salmon is being degraded by bait fish fisheries (which hardly anyone pays attention to) and by dragger by-catch etc.

There is generally a lot less food out there, and now Alaska alone dumps 1.5 billion "ranch" hatchery fish into that system. That would be rather like suddenly transporting the entire population of China into BC and Alberta - and that's just what Alaska does.

That dramatically increases the competition for increasingly rare food supplies for the wild salmon. In total the number of "ranch" salmon put into the north Pacific is something like 4.5-5 billion. It is a mugs game of flooding a limited food source with fish so that the returns are to YOUR country. The returns from the 1.5 billion fish Alaska dumps into the north Pacific? About 30 million fish that return. About a 2.5% return rate.

That poor return rate reflects the strategy, flood the "range" with your mediocre stock, and nobody else's has a chance. In a sense it is an old fashioned free for all range war. The big "herd" strips the food away, and leaves nothing for other species or smaller "herds".

Then the second half of the "ranching" strategy comes into play. Because there are "so many fish" in Alaskan waters, they get a free rein in harvesting the fish. The result is that the salmon "ranchers" are intercepting and decimating wild stocks not only in Alaska, but in BC as the salmon use the same migration routes.

In essence, what we are seeing is that the north Pacific is being "strip mined" for biomass. Wild salmon and Steelhead don't have a chance.

You should also be aware that the "salmon ranchers" absolutely hate the competition from fish farms, and do everything their big $$$ can do to discredit fish farms.


I don't want to think about it, HG, 'cause it's too darn depressing. Why do you always bring to the fore things that we can do nothing about? Or do you have a plan that you haven't discussed here?
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 18th, 2017, 4:52 pm

^^ as usual, the only positive thing we can do is stop eating salmon. And "wild harvested" fish in general. Vote with your wallet.

I personally don'y buy any fish except those further down the food chain, but only as an occasional treat. Tilipia, or other herbivorous fish can be substituted to some extent.

I do still go fishing, but most often barbless hook, catch and release. I have not killed a Steelhead since about 1974. Generally only keep about 4-6 trout per year, as a special treat.

In the end, it all boils down to personal responsibility and awareness.
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby Cactusflower » Dec 18th, 2017, 5:39 pm

^^There's so much seafood on the market today that is being imported from countries that have unscrupulous fishing and aquaculture methods. Personally, I wouldn't touch Tilapia or Basa with a 10-ft pole. I buy Nova Scotia scallops and Canadian sardines. I buy fresh Columbia River/Okanagan River sockeye salmon from the Osoyoos Indian Band and can it at home. I love our B.C. prawns (used to fish them commercially) but won't spend the money the retailers are charging for them nowadays. Same goes for crab and halibut. Next spring I hope to go fishing in the Arrow Lakes for Kokanee with my son-in-law. He also fishes in that reservoir between the Revelstoke and Mica dams and says he catches fresh water Ling cod there. I wasn't even aware there was such a thing as fresh water Ling cod. Have you ever caught one?
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 19th, 2017, 11:44 am

Cactusflower wrote:^^There's so much seafood on the market today that is being imported from countries that have unscrupulous fishing and aquaculture methods. Personally, I wouldn't touch Tilapia or Basa with a 10-ft pole. I buy Nova Scotia scallops and Canadian sardines. I buy fresh Columbia River/Okanagan River sockeye salmon from the Osoyoos Indian Band and can it at home. I love our B.C. prawns (used to fish them commercially) but won't spend the money the retailers are charging for them nowadays. Same goes for crab and halibut. Next spring I hope to go fishing in the Arrow Lakes for Kokanee with my son-in-law. He also fishes in that reservoir between the Revelstoke and Mica dams and says he catches fresh water Ling cod there. I wasn't even aware there was such a thing as fresh water Ling cod. Have you ever caught one?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burbot

Ah, but you are buying salmon. Every salmon taken is a spawner that doesn't reach the spawning grounds. I get though, as an occasional treat. Sardines are a food source for salmon, steelhead and other predatory species. I get it though, as an occasional treat.

The Nova Scotia scallop fishery uses a LOT of dredges. Dredging is habitat destructive and kills a lot of by-catch.

There is no free lunch.
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby Cactusflower » Dec 19th, 2017, 12:03 pm

^^You do recall the thousands of dead sockeye that washed up on the beaches at Osoyoos Lake a couple of years ago, don't you? Those fish didn't make it to the spawning grounds either. I think it's safe to say that fewer fish were caught and sold by the Osoyoos Indian Band. And I don't feel as if I'm destroying a salmon run by canning a dozen pints of sockeye each year.

No, you're not going to make me feel guilty for preferring to eat a small amount of Canadian seafood instead of eating something grown in swamps or ditches over in some Asian country. I'm not getting, nor am I asking for a 'free lunch'. All I'm asking is that our government stop ignoring the west coast fisheries, and and start enforcing some regulations for a change.
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby hobbyguy » Jan 10th, 2018, 5:44 pm

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/steelhead-poacher-1.4479504

"The B.C. Conservation Officer Service is investigating reports of the poaching of a threatened species of steelhead on the Thompson River."

Can't figure out why someone would be so stupid! If they catch the person, I hope they throw the book at them.
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby Glacier » Jan 10th, 2018, 5:55 pm

Maybe the tattle tailer didn't know the guy is first nations? My friend and cousin to a certain super star goalie is 1/4 FN with blonde hair and blue eyes. People don't believe him when he says he has native status.
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby Fixer 166 » Jan 12th, 2018, 9:12 am

Save these beauties, I've just started fishing for them.
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby Cactusflower » Feb 8th, 2018, 10:07 am

https://www.desmog.ca/2018/02/05/bloodw ... -103246003

The results are finally in, and no amount of belittling this online publication is going to change the fact that we need to get these Atlantic salmon farms out of our coastal waters. Conducting studies is the proper way for governments to make responsible decisions, and I'm glad the BC government has taken this approach.
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby Gone_Fishin » Jul 6th, 2018, 5:40 am

And, here's Horgan bowing to his union supporters, with his ministries redacting information from FOI requests, and allowing the Thompson steelhead to go extinct. If you ever thought the NDP would be any type of advocate for our wild species over the money and influence of their union supporters, you were 100% wrong.

http://steelheadvoices.com/?p=1066


I can’t bring myself to dwell on the FOI material much more but there are a couple additional items worth noting. First, the exchanges between MAg, DFO and the Canadian Pacific Sustainable Fisheries Society amounted to high fiving each other as soon as word of the endorsement of the Fraser chum fishery by the MSC agent Acoura was announced. Second, throughout the entire process of that Acoura review, there was virtually no mention of the First Nations net fisheries that clearly have a very significant influence on Thompson bound steelhead as they migrate through the Fraser River itself. Third, any mention or indication of a presence of the Minister of Agriculture throughout 1397 pages of FOI material dominated by her Ministry was conspicuously absent. That begs the question, who is it that runs the MAg shop? Who decided that they were the provincial voice for steelhead? How does Premier Horgan pass the red face test on any of this? How does he stand at the podium flanked by Minister of Agriculture Popham and Green Party MLA Olsen and preach the gospel of wild “salmon” conservation in announcing an advisory council comprised of 14 people, none of whom have been remotely associated with steelhead conservation? How does MLA Olsen allow himself to be used by Horgan such as he obviously was after being the one who catalyzed entire advisory council initiative on the basis of his speech focused on the status of Thompson and Chilcotin steelhead in the legislature back on February 20? The BC Wildlife Federation only has 50,000 members and a tremendous investment of time and energy in Thompson steelhead advocacy and conservation since Premier Horgan assumed the throne. They don’t warrant a seat at the table but the head of the United Fishermen and Allied Workers Union, the most strident and abrasive critic of steelhead this province has ever known, is right in there.

Draw your own conclusions. Meanwhile, think about the Fraser chinook situation. Those fish outnumber Interior Fraser Steelhead by a factor of roughly 150 but their status commands complete shutdowns of commercial and recreational fisheries and even constraints on First Nation fisheries (arguably ineffective). Pity the Thompson steelhead run timing overlaps with enhanced chum salmon rather than chinook. They might stand a chance if it did.
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby hobbyguy » Jul 6th, 2018, 9:21 am

G_F, it is the unfortunate reality that the commercial fishing industry has always had a disproportionate voice in such matters. We now also see a disproportionate voice from FNs fishers.

Summer and late summer run steelhead have been in trouble for a very long time as commercial fishing decimates their runs. The blame always somehow goes elsewhere.

What happens is that steelhead recreational fishers are a small number of votes. Between commercial and FN fisheries, a lot more votes, and a lot more party donations and lobbying. So the political "scientists" don't want to hear about the reality. Studies are slanted to ensure that the real issues don't lead to things like commercial closures.

Been that way for a long time.
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Re: Steelhead & wild salmon endangered

Postby Queen K » Jul 6th, 2018, 3:40 pm

Glacier wrote:The steelhead eat oolichan, and the shrimp fishery has absolutely decimated oolichan stocks because they are a bycatch of the shrimp harvest.


Thank you for pointing out that everything in the natural World depends upon something living before it or with it.

Take one link out and the reverberations are immeasurable or measurable, but there are consequences.

Sad for Steelhead, is there any hope for generations after ours and what they are left with well after 50 to 100 years from now?
Could it be that a whole life can shift the day one starts telling the truth about what makes one happy?
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