Minimum wage

Re: Minimum wage

Postby HorganIsMyHero » Jan 19th, 2018, 12:51 pm

The Green Barbarian wrote:It's too bad that the current party in power didn't actually win the election.


Except they did win.
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Re: Minimum wage

Postby Fancy » Jan 19th, 2018, 1:01 pm

All media outlets pointed to liberal win but this link clarifies what happened:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/br ... e35108536/
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Re: Minimum wage

Postby The Green Barbarian » Jan 19th, 2018, 7:58 pm

HorganIsMyHero wrote:
Except they did win.


Except that they didn't.
Not all leftists are stupid, but most stupid people are leftists.
- Dr. Don Boys

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Re: Minimum wage

Postby Queen K » Jan 19th, 2018, 8:00 pm

The Green Barbarian wrote:
HorganIsMyHero wrote:
Except they did win.


Except that they didn't.


Unless one counts "appointed" as a "win." Which is just :dash:
Our saddest days are when we add up our losses, and losses seem to be our saddest when we lose our best. Proud to be a "Leaf-licker" and I know who else is too. **smiles**
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Re: Minimum wage

Postby flamingfingers » Jan 19th, 2018, 8:08 pm

Both the Liberals and the NDP entered into negotiations with the Greens and formed an alliance with the NDP which was more in line with their political policies and the alliance carried the day, leading to the non-confidence vote that took down the ChristyLiberals.

Seat count at 83 for the ChristyLiberals did not give them a mandate to form government.
Why do people who fancy themselves "fiscal conservatives" not scream at hidden debt accumulated in the past dozen years? Or, do they only object to spending on social programs?

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Re: Minimum wage

Postby flamingfingers » Jan 19th, 2018, 8:15 pm

But we should get back on topic about 'minimum wage' ....I think companies and franchises should plan to increase wages for their employees in their business plans and reflect good corporate citizenship instead of screwing their employees for nickles and dimes,
Why do people who fancy themselves "fiscal conservatives" not scream at hidden debt accumulated in the past dozen years? Or, do they only object to spending on social programs?

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Re: Minimum wage

Postby normaM » Jan 20th, 2018, 7:58 am

Except that someone has to pay for the higher wages...and staff will be cut. Read over 60,000 jobs will be lost by 2019. Machines are going to win. Like fast food places, they used to pour your pop, now you get a cup to fill yourself. iPad ordering.
When things become more expensive ppl buy less of it. There is a term in economics.. darn if I can remember it right now.
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Re: Minimum wage

Postby Buckeye19 » Jan 20th, 2018, 9:01 am

HorganIsMyHero wrote:Except they did win.


If a team loses 4-3 in hockey, can they borrow a couple goals from another team and claim victory?

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Re: Minimum wage

Postby Cactusflower » Jan 20th, 2018, 9:32 am

Buckeye19 wrote:
HorganIsMyHero wrote:Except they did win.


If a team loses 4-3 in hockey, can they borrow a couple goals from another team and claim victory?


What does this have to do with minimum wage? You guys lost........get over it.
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Re: Minimum wage

Postby The Green Barbarian » Jan 20th, 2018, 11:09 am

Cactusflower wrote: You guys lost........get over it.


Everyone in BC lost, and that's the problem.
Not all leftists are stupid, but most stupid people are leftists.
- Dr. Don Boys

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Re: Minimum wage

Postby rustled » Jan 20th, 2018, 11:23 am

What does seem germane to the discussion:
    .
  • The current government campaigned with a promise to escalate the minimum wage to $15 by 2021 (in other words, much larger than usual increases over the next few years).
    .
  • This promise didn't resonate with enough voters to provide them with a majority government, and we cannot know how many of the voters who chose NDP in the last election did so primarily because of this particular promise.
    .
  • Once in power, the government backed away from the promise. It seems pretty clear they are no longer certain the results would be "more good than harm".
    .
  • Meanwhile, quite a few people remain convinced the policy would, in fact, do more good than harm. It's interesting to see how some people are willing to gamble with the standard of living of some marginalized folk (and in the livelihoods of other low earners) in order to see how their theory works in practice.
    .
  • The current government, now accountable for the outcome of the gamble, seem less willing to take that risk.
Taking all of this into consideration, I for one am very glad the NDP is "studying the issue" while we gauge the real effects of the larger-than-usual increases in other provinces. There's likely to be benefit for some, and fallout for others. The big questions remain to be answered: Who is harmed, and by how much, who gains, and by how much? IMO, it's pretty callous to say "let's just do it and find out" when indicators are, the fallout for some folk will be pretty bad.

I do hope the NDP is also looking hard at improving all of the other ways we collectively invest in helping those who need a hand up.

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Re: Minimum wage

Postby The Green Barbarian » Jan 20th, 2018, 7:26 pm

Not all leftists are stupid, but most stupid people are leftists.
- Dr. Don Boys

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Re: Minimum wage

Postby hobbyguy » Jan 22nd, 2018, 11:11 am

The discussion around minimum wages, which really gets into the overall discussion poverty reduction, is a really complex subject. Some advocate a guaranteed minimum income.

For wonks like me, this lengthy article is a worthwhile read, and contains some ideas and ways forward toward poverty reduction/minimization that are worth considering: https://www.thefreelibrary.com/A+dubious+antipoverty+strategy%3A+guaranteeing+incomes+for+the+poor+is...-a0353517593

A few pertinent statements:

"A dollar of transfers isn't a dollar earned

Yet another critical issue in the choice between cash redistribution and other policy approaches relates to the intergenerational transmission of poverty. Transferring cash to families through public programs may have different impacts on behaviour than raising incomes through work-related policies. A longitudinal study tracked the experience of children growing up in impoverished U.S. families. It found that work and income earned by parents (particularly the mother) was much more effective in reducing the incidence of various adverse events among their offspring as teens and young adults (such as dropping out of high school, out-of-wedlock teenage births and lack of work attachment) than equivalent amounts of public cash benefits. (14) The educational level of parents was another important factor influencing favourable long-run outcomes for their children.

Thus, a dollar of transfers is not fully equivalent to a dollar of earned income; earned income carries not only greater autonomy and dignity but also more favourable long-run effects on poverty incidence. Antipoverty policies should take to heart this education-and work-oriented message, at least for the employable among the poor."

SNIP

"Canada already provides relatively generous targeted cash benefits for two groups in the format of a guaranteed income. The maximum amount a senior with little income receives through the OAS/GIS is about $15,400 annually, while the total annual cash benefits for a child in a low-income family can exceed $5,000 through federal and provincial programs apart from welfare. In contrast, non-aged people with disabilities in most provinces receive welfare benefits lower than the maximum level for seniors, an unjustified discrepancy. A small first step to redress this imbalance would be to make the existing disability tax credit refundable--that is, payable to eligible people with disabilities with incomes so low as to be nontaxable; further steps might be a federal or federally financed provincial supplement for this group."

SNIP

"Even within unchanged budgets, some antipoverty programs can be redesigned to provide better and fairer support. For example, public housing in most provinces has long waiting lists on account of limited funding and the attractive implicit subsidies in their rent charges. A common standard for setting rents in public housing is 30 per cent of the tenant's income. When many low- and moderate-income families are paying a larger share of their income for rentals in the private market and unable to access public housing, this situation seems inequitable. Raising the rents on public housing to 35 per cent of income would be fairer, finance the provision of more units and reduce the waiting time of applicants"

SNIP

"Ambitious strategies are also needed to go beyond ameliorating current poverty and reduce the incidence of poverty and low incomes in future generations. Children in poorer neighbourhoods need expanded programs of early child development and free school breakfasts. Major steps can be taken to improve counselling and other services to at-risk youth to encourage their high-school completion and subsequent education or training. Enhanced community centre activities and sporting facilities can further aid youth development.

Moreover, the provinces should emulate the systems in countries that have extensive occupational programs beginning in high school and extending to workplace apprenticeships. Such moves could play an important part in addressing Canada's looming skill shortages, while raising many youth from lives of earnings insecurity and poverty. These issues are of particular salience for First Nations youth--the fastest-growing segment of the population and the group at greatest risk of poverty."

SNIP

"An all-cash strategy such as a guaranteed income is touted as a simple solution to the complex problem of poverty. In this context, we should all heed H.L. Mencken's famous aphorism: "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong."
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: Minimum wage

Postby Nedroj » Jan 22nd, 2018, 11:18 pm

Here’s some ideas to ponder.

-Leave minimum wage at 10$
-Provide free college/trade courses for everyone
-Increase the basic personal amount to whatever the poverty level has been determined for an individual or family.

This would provide everyone with the amount of which is needed to live tax free. Any additional income should
Be taxed at the regular rate. This would also provide everyone with an equal opportunity to take post secondary education and invest in the future populations.

However there needs to be some sacrifices to make this theoretically feasible.

-Cut the government by 1/3
-Throw JT out of office
-Legalize and tax pot the same as booze/cigs
-Phase out funding to wealthy and independent FN bands

These are extremely summed up points but you get the idea. We have far too large of government doing a horrible job. And there go to answer is to hire more people that know what they’re doing. And then give themselves a raise to celebrate their brilliant idea.
JT has to go. Millions paid to X Canadians turned terrorists. C-16,M106. Enough said.
Pot has been one of Canada’s top multi billion industry for years. It’s about time the country benefits from this harmless plant.
This is going to be a touchy subject but let’s be honest here, at some point the country will have to phase out the constant funding to the FN people. This current financial deal cannot last forever and if phased out would free up a lot of resources that could be put towards fixing our health care system and making it a model for other countries.
'I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand' - Confucius
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Re: Minimum wage

Postby JLives » Jan 23rd, 2018, 12:02 am

What we should be discussing in the conversation of minimum wage is instituting a maximum wage. Let's stop siphoning money to a top minority of people and figure a better way for the majority of hard working folks to bring it home. If those at the top want more money then those doing the actual work should get a raise too.
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