Minimum wage

[The Green Barbarian]

Because I think thats entirely different demographic, those people are as crazy as the anti vaxers and politic groupies, and I really don't think they're representative of any political party or philosophy in particular.

I was talking about these people:

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... owing-don/

And I agree, they are crazy.

[The Green Barbarian]

Can people live off $100 a month? What about $50?

Probably could, but why would they?

[The Green Barbarian]

Anyone who can apply basic logic to a situation should be able to determine what tolerably well fed, clothed and lodged means.

then why doesn't this happen?

[JLives]

Probably could, but why would they?

Now you're just saying words. No, they can't live off $100 a week. Our society and economy isn't set up that that way. You can't rent a couch for that amount let alone eat food.

[JLives]

then why doesn't this happen?

Because some people are being deliberately obtuse and not living in the economy of the present. The 50's and 60's are long gone, never to return.

[The Green Barbarian]

Now you're just saying words. No, they can't live off $100 a week. Our society and economy isn't set up that that way. You can't rent a couch for that amount let alone eat food.

If they are a kid living with their parents and going to high school?

[The Green Barbarian]

Because some people are being deliberately obtuse and not living in the economy of the present. The 50's and 60's are long gone, never to return.

you are right, they aren't going to return, though not sure why mentioning them at all is relevant to a conversation about minimum wage and people wanting higher minimum wages. And I agree with the obtuse remark completely. People who think that companies and society owe them a living are definitely obtuse.

[CapitalB]

Now you're just saying words. No, they can't live off $100 a week. Our society and economy isn't set up that that way. You can't rent a couch for that amount let alone eat food.

If they are a kid living with their parents and going to high school?

The problem here is that most of the people making minimum wage are way older than this. I used to hire for a local service retail space and would regularly people aged 20-senior for minimum wage, maybe +$0.20 an hour if they were really skilled. I'd hire lots of students at that rate as well but they had terrible availability so the company was always looking for older people that are so desperate for work that they'll break down and take poverty pay.

[The Green Barbarian]

The problem here is that most of the people making minimum wage are way older than this. I used to hire for a local service retail space and would regularly people aged 20-senior for minimum wage, maybe +$0.20 an hour if they were really skilled. I'd hire lots of students at that rate as well but they had terrible availability so the company was always looking for older people that are so desperate for work that they'll break down and take poverty pay.

why are these "older people" needing to take "poverty pay"? That's my question. Why haven't they learned a skill/trade by their age? I have been talking to Okanagan businesses in the past few weeks who just can't find people to hire, and they are extremely busy. But they need skilled labour. Why aren't the lights going on in these peoples' heads to develop a skill so they are worth more to employers? Any ideas? You seem to be a cut above the usual leftist screamers we get here, so I wanted to pose the question to see what you think.

[JLives]

If they are a kid living with their parents and going to high school?

I know that is your fantasy of who minimum wage workers are but please try to stick with the reality of 2017. There are many independent adults working for those wages. For various reasons which are irrelevant to the conversation. How many Sears workers just got laid off? And where do you think they are going to go, medical school?

[HorganIsMyHero]

I have been talking to Okanagan businesses in the past few weeks who just can't find people to hire, and they are extremely busy.

Gets tiresome seeing business owners complain they can't find people and then it usually comes out at some point that the business is doing stupid things like having people on-call 24/7 with no scheduled shifts, calling people in for 2 hours, not paying employees on time, somehow "forgetting" hours and not paying the right amounts, etc. i mentioned some of this stuff a few pages ago and people were quick to defend businesses. There's absolutely no reason a well-run business that doesn't pull BS should be struggling to find employees.

[CapitalB]

why are these "older people" needing to take "poverty pay"? That's my question. Why haven't they learned a skill/trade by their age? I have been talking to Okanagan businesses in the past few weeks who just can't find people to hire, and they are extremely busy. But they need skilled labour. Why aren't the lights going on in these peoples' heads to develop a skill so they are worth more to employers? Any ideas? You seem to be a cut above the usual leftist screamers we get here, so I wanted to pose the question to see what you think.

Most of the older ones were little old ladies 50 plus, I didn't ask why they were there I assume they hadn't adequately prepared for retirement and needed to supplement their income. Others were young to middle aged adults, most of the guys there were either ex trades people or people that had some kind of life issue (disability biological, work related (thats me), psychological, or other), and most of the ladies (and some of the guys) were usually career service industry workers. Unfortunately for career service industry workers you basically get an extra $0.01 per year of experience onto the hourly wage.

Why hadn't they progressed up to management, or into another industry? Who knows, management isn't for a lot of people, and some others really enjoy the working with the public part of it.

A lot of people I've met in that industry like they work they do there, they enjoy the service industry career. They just aren't valued as employees by that industry. The management at most of the companies are very vocal about their belief that the employees have no better options, and truth is for the most part they don't.

I've managed to mostly claw my way out of it, because I could not go back to trades, getting out though involved at various times; working 60 hours a week, working 40 hours a week and doing 20 hours of school (plus homework), eliminating all extra costs (eating out, going out, luxury purchases, all processed food, etc), and cramming every extra minute I could with building personal skills. Sure that was required because of mistakes I'd made in my teens and early twenties, but I spent a full decade turning around a few years of poor decisions.

That is a level of diligence, work ethic, and prolonged effort that is above and beyond what most people can manage. A lot just see that much uphill and turn off because it looks impossible. Even for me it looked impossible until it wasn't any more, you basically work your *bleep* off with zero guarantee that life will stop pooping on you.

[The Green Barbarian]

Gets tiresome seeing business owners complain they can't find people and then it usually comes out at some point that the business is doing stupid things like having people on-call 24/7 with no scheduled shifts, calling people in for 2 hours, not paying employees on time, somehow "forgetting" hours and not paying the right amounts, etc..

If businesses are doing this, then yes, I wouldn't have much sympathy for them if they can't find people. No argument from me.

[The Green Barbarian]

Most of the older ones were little old ladies 50 plus, I didn't ask why they were there I assume they hadn't adequately prepared for retirement and needed to supplement their income. Others were young to middle aged adults, most of the guys there were either ex trades people or people that had some kind of life issue (disability biological, work related (thats me), psychological, or other), and most of the ladies (and some of the guys) were usually career service industry workers. Unfortunately for career service industry workers you basically get an extra $0.01 per year of experience onto the hourly wage.

Why hadn't they progressed up to management, or into another industry? Who knows, management isn't for a lot of people, and some others really enjoy the working with the public part of it.

A lot of people I've met in that industry like they work they do there, they enjoy the service industry career. They just aren't valued as employees by that industry. The management at most of the companies are very vocal about their belief that the employees have no better options, and truth is for the most part they don't.

I've managed to mostly claw my way out of it, because I could not go back to trades, getting out though involved at various times; working 60 hours a week, working 40 hours a week and doing 20 hours of school (plus homework), eliminating all extra costs (eating out, going out, luxury purchases, all processed food, etc), and cramming every extra minute I could with building personal skills. Sure that was required because of mistakes I'd made in my teens and early twenties, but I spent a full decade turning around a few years of poor decisions.

That is a level of diligence, work ethic, and prolonged effort that is above and beyond what most people can manage. A lot just see that much uphill and turn off because it looks impossible. Even for me it looked impossible until it wasn't any more, you basically work your *bleep* off with zero guarantee that life will stop pooping on you.

Well said. Thanks for sharing.

[CapitalB]

I have been talking to Okanagan businesses in the past few weeks who just can't find people to hire, and they are extremely busy.

Gets tiresome seeing business owners complain they can't find people and then it usually comes out at some point that the business is doing stupid things like having people on-call 24/7 with no scheduled shifts, calling people in for 2 hours, not paying employees on time, somehow "forgetting" hours and not paying the right amounts, etc. i mentioned some of this stuff a few pages ago and people were quick to defend businesses. There's absolutely no reason a well-run business that doesn't pull BS should be struggling to find employees.

A lot of this is deliberate tactics by employers. I've heard it described as keeping the employees on their toes, and the forgetting hours is a pretty common mistake since they like to go in and adjust things. Its a crime that leaves little to no evidence, can be hidden as a mistake, and most of the victims don't catch it or are too cowed to say anything.