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Ice on the Coq

Re: Ice on the Coq

Postby dle » Dec 24th, 2017, 6:46 am

Chyren wrote:Blame the crews all you want but understand that Winter Driving in Canada is just that. Winter driving. Until people start driving according to conditions with proper equipment and common sense then the issues will start to go down. Until then people will keep spinning out, crashing into each other, and in general being stupid.


Yes but here's the thing - I'm not disagreeing with your opinion, the stupids are a big cause of a lot of the trouble, BUT as has been stated by others on the thread it ISN'T always the stupids that cause the accidents - it is a lot of the time - but NOT ALWAYS and I think that's what we are trying to say is that a lot more often now than in the past, we are noticing that the road maintenance just isn't up to snuff because when a person can spin out on black ice when they are driving completely in tune with conditions and have good winter tires, then sand and/or other preventative measures are needed and are NOT being applied. Maintenance crews are skimping or foregoing altogether this very important component of winter road clearing/safety. If they haven't got enough trucks or crew to get the job done properly, then they need to hire more staff, buy more trucks or the government has to step back in and either revoke or not renew their contract. They are not keeping up their end of the bargain.

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Re: Ice on the Coq

Postby Dizzy1 » Dec 24th, 2017, 12:26 pm

Chyren wrote:Blame the crews all you want but understand that Winter Driving in Canada is just that. Winter driving. Until people start driving according to conditions with proper equipment and common sense then the issues will start to go down. Until then people will keep spinning out, crashing into each other, and in general being stupid.

Which is fine and dandy, but the thing is, the conditions the maintenance crews have been leaving us (the taxpayer) are becoming worse and worse every year. Sure you could argue that its winters driving in Canada, but we can argue that we expect to see a much higher level of standard, or at least to a standard we see elsewhere in the world or the standard we used to have, when it comes to maintaining highway conditions.
Nobody wants to hear your opinion. They just want to hear their own opinion coming out of your mouth.

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Re: Ice on the Coq

Postby Omnitheo » Dec 24th, 2017, 1:41 pm

I just drove down and back last week.
Yes there’s compact snow on the coq and connector. They’re mountain roads in winter. What do you expect?

There were also snowplows. Plenty of signage advising of conditions. We have driveBC. Variable speed corridors. Etc etc.

Just be careful when you’re driving.
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Re: Ice on the Coq

Postby dle » Dec 24th, 2017, 4:19 pm

Omnitheo wrote:I just drove down and back last week.
Yes there’s compact snow on the coq and connector. They’re mountain roads in winter. What do you expect?

There were also snowplows. Plenty of signage advising of conditions. We have driveBC. Variable speed corridors. Etc etc.

Just be careful when you’re driving.


Sure - you can be as careful as can be but if the other guy isn't and you can't dodge him, well, a lot of good all that signage, snowplows and you being careful did eh? Same if you are moving carefully along and spin out of control through no fault of yours but because you hit black ice where the people in charge of snow removal and maintenance had decided not to put any sand/salt because, well you know, they are mountain roads in winter, what do we expect?
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Re: Ice on the Coq

Postby Ken7 » Dec 24th, 2017, 7:06 pm

GT500 wrote:. I think that highways should go back to the old fashion salt and sand and using more equipment to help keep the roads clear of snow. ICBC wants everyone to change to winter tires to help reduce the risk of driving on bad roads but all this seems to have done is reduce the proper maintenance of our highways for our family and friends. Spend the money to maintain all the roadways in bc (highway and city) and the amount of MVI will be reduced.


I think you have it there, put more effort into keeping the snow off. If you do not and it packs as you see it makes ices which is very difficult to clean off.
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Re: Ice on the Coq

Postby flamingfingers » Dec 24th, 2017, 8:27 pm

Drive to the road conditions, not the speed limits on signs or what you THINK your vehicle is capable of doing.

Drive to get there alive - not how fast you can get there!!
Why do people who fancy themselves "fiscal conservatives" not scream at hidden debt accumulated in the past dozen years? Or, do they only object to spending on social programs?

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Re: Ice on the Coq

Postby Dizzy1 » Dec 25th, 2017, 12:30 am

flamingfingers wrote:Drive to the road conditions, not the speed limits on signs or what you THINK your vehicle is capable of doing.

Drive to get there alive - not how fast you can get there!!

The problem isn't driving to road conditions - the problem is the fact that the maintenance of road conditions has been on the decline for the last several years :132:
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Re: Ice on the Coq

Postby dle » Dec 25th, 2017, 8:56 am

flamingfingers wrote:Drive to the road conditions, not the speed limits on signs or what you THINK your vehicle is capable of doing.

Drive to get there alive - not how fast you can get there!!


This is SO true.....how many times have you heard someone say "the roads weren't that bad - I made it in "X" hours", or "it only took me "X hours once I got passed all the idiots". It seems to be a personal contest about how fast you can get to your destination so who is the idiot?

New mantra for all - better to arrive late in this world than to arrive early in the next....

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Re: Ice on the Coq

Postby seewood » Dec 25th, 2017, 11:32 am

Drove to Van. via the Coq. on Sat the 23rd. Driving an awd Subaru Crosstrek with studded snowies.
Been driving now for 43? years, many years 60,000+ kms and on frozen iced up logging roads.
That trip down on Sat, I've NEVER been so stressed in driving in my life. Started off at 120kph but coming up to the Coq. summit, the roads had that packed ice on them and speed dropped to 80 kph. Still found myself drifting side to side. lane changes were over hundreds of yards, not a quick zip. I was "aiming" the car more than steering it. Still slowed down to 60 kph on a clear bright cold day , -15 across the top.
Merritt to Van was worse yet. Speed was 60-70 kph as the road was glazed over ice. There was a gravel truck spreading what I suspect was 3/4 minus material instead of sand. Over a period of 4 kms I noticed several tire tracks bouncing off the concrete dividers on both sides of the southbound lanes. Northbound lanes had three ambulances, 4 tow tucks and 3 cop cars? dealing with vehicles pin-balling on that icy section. Crappy way to start the Christmas holidays eh.
We were passed by vehicles numerous times oblivious to the ice.
After the snow sheds the roads were bare and dry all the way to Squamish...

Me thinks the ice was from snow that fell when the temp was just around freezing. This what Vancouver usually gets and after a few vehicles drive over it, it is pretty much packed to ice. At -15 now, salt just ain't going to do anything.
Perhaps put some of that solution down prior to a warm snow event as was forecasted would have made a difference. But as mentioned here several times, that would have come out of the contractors bottom line..
Safe travels all.
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Re: Ice on the Coq

Postby Ken7 » Dec 27th, 2017, 4:57 pm

I was discussing this issue with a fellow who used to do road construction and still has a plow company. I did not look at it from this perspective.

Think of some of the large snow falls we have in this area. IF it is snowing extremely heavily when you clean for one hour, behind you there is again 3 -4 inches. Now that snow is driven on and packed, you again clean. It is a ongoing issue and reality is you physically they can not keep up.

It makes sense and as we see if there is a period of time without snow fall they tend to break it down again to pebble covered pavement. I do however think they need to change from marble sized to more of a 1/2 size so they don't take your windshield when stupid people pass and quickly pull in for no apparent reason at all.

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Re: Ice on the Coq

Postby Chyren » Dec 28th, 2017, 8:06 am

Its Canada. Its winter. Drive like its winter.

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Re: Ice on the Coq

Postby dle » Dec 28th, 2017, 9:47 am

Dizzy1 wrote:
flamingfingers wrote:Drive to the road conditions, not the speed limits on signs or what you THINK your vehicle is capable of doing.

Drive to get there alive - not how fast you can get there!!

The problem isn't driving to road conditions - the problem is the fact that the maintenance of road conditions has been on the decline for the last several years :132:


Dizzy 1 I disagree strongly with the first part of your post BUT heartily agree with the second part! Drivers need to literally "get a grip" and slow down, and road maintenance needs to up their game A LOT!
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Re: Ice on the Coq

Postby bob vernon » Dec 28th, 2017, 10:45 am

The objective of a snowplowing contractor is to make money. The more time that trucks are out on the road burning fuel and wearing out blades, the less they make. So they try to do the absolute minimum. I've been on that road when it's been obvious that a plow hasn't been there for hours and it's snowing. Funny how they'll show up in force when the multi-car accident happens and even chained up semis can't move.
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Re: Ice on the Coq

Postby Urban Cowboy » Dec 28th, 2017, 12:42 pm

Sparki55 wrote:I drove the road this weekend. Been doing so for the past 6 years twice a winter. Gotta say this is the worst for ice that I have ever seen. Road was icy from the sawmill in west kelowna all the way to hope.

I'm not sure if thr conditions I went in were somehow worse or if it is negligence and lack of salt? I slipped on a strait portion this year, going about 60km/h up a hill (people were going faster). I use tires that display a snowflake and m+s, they are for all seasons.


Honestly I believe this has far more to do with weather conditions being optimum for creating the conditions that currently exist.

Once you have ice all that's needed is a little wind and whatever sand gets put down is blown off.

In the end regardless of what the road maintenance guys do, there will still be vehicles in the ditch, and on their roofs, because you can't fix stupid, and the ones that fall into that category will continue to overdrive for the road conditions. Those are the ones who think driving a 4X4 or having studded tires, is a free pass to drive as if it's summer.

I think some just may be under the misguided notion, that if you spend enough money, and send enough road maintenance vehicles up to the Coquihalla, it can be maintained to the level of summer driving conditions, and that simply won't ever happen. These are the types that have likely never driven through a storm at higher elevations, and observed just how quickly the snow builds up.

bob vernon wrote:The objective of a snowplowing contractor is to make money. The more time that trucks are out on the road burning fuel and wearing out blades, the less they make. So they try to do the absolute minimum. I've been on that road when it's been obvious that a plow hasn't been there for hours and it's snowing. Funny how they'll show up in force when the multi-car accident happens and even chained up semis can't move.


Or perhaps it was simply obvious that snow was coming down much faster than you anticipated, and the conclusion you came to was incorrect.
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Re: Ice on the Coq

Postby Urban Cowboy » Dec 28th, 2017, 12:47 pm

Ken7 wrote:I was discussing this issue with a fellow who used to do road construction and still has a plow company. I did not look at it from this perspective.

Think of some of the large snow falls we have in this area. IF it is snowing extremely heavily when you clean for one hour, behind you there is again 3 -4 inches. Now that snow is driven on and packed, you again clean. It is a ongoing issue and reality is you physically they can not keep up.

It makes sense and as we see if there is a period of time without snow fall they tend to break it down again to pebble covered pavement. I do however think they need to change from marble sized to more of a 1/2 size so they don't take your windshield when stupid people pass and quickly pull in for no apparent reason at all.


We have a winner. :up:

Agree with you 100%
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