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Return BC Ferries to the Ministry of Transportation

Re: Return BC Ferries to the Ministry of Transportation

Postby alanjh595 » Dec 29th, 2017, 2:28 pm

In a union, the union takes the next person on the list that qualifies for that position. They send out the one on the hire list according to how long they were in the line up, NOT the best suited for the job or position.

I was in a Union, I have 1st hand experience.
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Re: Return BC Ferries to the Ministry of Transportation

Postby Cactusflower » Dec 29th, 2017, 4:57 pm

alanjh595 wrote:In a union, the union takes the next person on the list that qualifies for that position. They send out the one on the hire list according to how long they were in the line up, NOT the best suited for the job or position.

I was in a Union, I have 1st hand experience.


Being 'qualified' for the position means the same thing as 'best suited' for the position. If you can explain the difference, please do so.
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Re: Return BC Ferries to the Ministry of Transportation

Postby alanjh595 » Dec 29th, 2017, 5:16 pm

Cactusflower wrote:
alanjh595 wrote:In a union, the union takes the next person on the list that qualifies for that position. They send out the one on the hire list according to how long they were in the line up, NOT the best suited for the job or position.

I was in a Union, I have 1st hand experience.


Being 'qualified' for the position means the same thing as 'best suited' for the position. If you can explain the difference, please do so.


Example:
#1. Teamster shows up on the job site after being dispatched from the hall. The position was for a "fuel truck driver". The person that showed up had only experience as a "Hog fuel" driver.
Both positions required a Class #1 DL.

#2. New driver shows up, dispatched from the hall as a bus driver. The job was in road construction and the driver had to transport other employees from camp to equipment. Big incline road, 5 speed transmission, the driver ground 3 years worth of wear off the gears and somebody finally yelled up at him, "You have to double clutch it". The response was, "AWWwww, you guys.......you can't fool me, the other one is the brake".

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Re: Return BC Ferries to the Ministry of Transportation

Postby Cactusflower » Dec 29th, 2017, 8:21 pm

alanjh595 wrote:
Cactusflower wrote:
Being 'qualified' for the position means the same thing as 'best suited' for the position. If you can explain the difference, please do so.


Example:
#1. Teamster shows up on the job site after being dispatched from the hall. The position was for a "fuel truck driver". The person that showed up had only experience as a "Hog fuel" driver.
Both positions required a Class #1 DL.

#2. New driver shows up, dispatched from the hall as a bus driver. The job was in road construction and the driver had to transport other employees from camp to equipment. Big incline road, 5 speed transmission, the driver ground 3 years worth of wear off the gears and somebody finally yelled up at him, "You have to double clutch it". The response was, "AWWwww, you guys.......you can't fool me, the other one is the brake".


Sounds like an inside joke to me.
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Re: Return BC Ferries to the Ministry of Transportation

Postby bob vernon » Dec 29th, 2017, 9:47 pm

Gordo Campbell "privatized" the Ferries, BC Hydro, and BCBC (the Building Corp of BC) which owns the gumment buildings. They were "privatized", but the only shareholder is the Gumment of BC. Because these corporations are private, along with ICBC, the shareholder can order them to borrow money and turn it over to the gumment. All those years that Gordo and Christie told you that the budget was balanced, Hydro, BCBC, Ferries, and ICBC were borrowing money and racking up the credit cards in order to balance the books. We now owe something approaching $70 billion through Hydro alone.

Why would the NDP return Ferries back inside the gumment when they can do what the Liberals did and use it to rack up debt. Except it's debt that doesn't count on the books.

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Re: Return BC Ferries to the Ministry of Transportation

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 30th, 2017, 10:38 am

Cactusflower wrote:@Hobbyguy:
Management of a corporation, including BC Ferries, are not union. They hire the employees . Some employees are better qualified than others. That applies to union members and non-union members alike.


The union determines who moves up by seniority and inside game politics. Management don't helm the ferry. Management provided all the training and all the safety gear, and the union employees were off doing what? Not their jobs [icon_lol2.gif]

Those of us with management experience know how all that works. Plenty of instances where the first thing WCB does is check management records to see if the employee was properly trained, properly tested for qualification, given the right equipment, the equipment properly maintained, properly inspected to a required schedule - and there is still a major fluff-up. If management doesn't do all those things, they can be held personally responsible.

I've seen lots of that nonsense from both sides. When in a union I had a supposedly qualified blaster assigned to my crew loading a pit. He was instructed, as were all the crew, to only load the holes that had caps laid out. No, doofus moves several caps and loads the wrong holes, threw the blast sequence out of whack and took it across a fault. I had to deal with the cut off unexploded dynamite - which is a dangerous and tricky job, and put up with the investigation - because when the company wanted a blaster this puppy making goof was the next on the seniority list.

From the management side, I can tell you it takes about 1-1/2 to 2 years to successfully fire such goofs.

So your entire argument about management not hiring good people is just nonsense. You hire someone to be a labourer, and they work their way into positions where they don't have the smarts or abilities - because of seniority, and you are stuck with them (unless you, as a manager, become the next best thing to a labour lawyer). Been the whole route, including the grievance/arbitration route when making qualification tests real tests of qualification - and the union screams "it's toooo haaaard".
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: Return BC Ferries to the Ministry of Transportation

Postby JagXKR » Dec 30th, 2017, 11:12 am

alanjh595
Totally got the joke. [icon_lol2.gif]

Have worked in a union and has it's good and bad. One bad that goes to the seniority issue was many years ago for me. An overtime shift needed to be filled and I was available and had worked the specific area previously. Actually many times. However the overtime was based on seniority and I was way at the bottom. A much more senior employee got the job (taken me about 5-6 hours previously) and about 4 hours in a call came in that this more senior union member was no where near on schedule. I had to go and help finish the job and when I got there it was not even half completed. More like a third.

Being in a union does not always mean the most skilled or competent employee is actually completing the task at hand.
BTW it happened again nearly the exact same situation a few more times, with the same employee. Finally a Union-Management meeting took place to resolve the issue.
Why use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice.
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Re: Return BC Ferries to the Ministry of Transportation

Postby The Green Barbarian » Dec 30th, 2017, 11:56 am

bob vernon wrote:Gordo Campbell "privatized" the Ferries, BC Hydro, and BCBC (the Building Corp of BC) which owns the gumment buildings. .


Oh really? Thank you Gordon. That was a great initiative. What a monumental task you had reversing all the horrible economy-killing disgusting policies of the previous regime's reign of terror. Thank goodness those NDP scum were booted out 77-2. Thank you on behalf of everyone in BC for your service during those dark days of 2001-2002 when you were able to steer the Titanic away from the ice-berg the NDP seemed hell-bent on ramming us right into.
Not all leftists are stupid, but most stupid people are leftists
- Dr. Don Boys

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Re: Return BC Ferries to the Ministry of Transportation

Postby twobits » Dec 30th, 2017, 6:43 pm

maryjane48 wrote:I agree it should go back under the ministry as the bclib corrupt expermient cost us more money .



The only reason to do so is to entrench NDP votes on the Island. Same tactic as removing bridge tolls. Make everything free where most of the population lives and say f you to the other 95% of the province that generates royalties and wealth.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard.

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Re: Return BC Ferries to the Ministry of Transportation

Postby Hermes » Jan 1st, 2018, 1:14 am

alanjh595 wrote:In a union, the union takes the next person on the list that qualifies for that position. They send out the one on the hire list according to how long they were in the line up, NOT the best suited for the job or position.

I was in a Union, I have 1st hand experience.


And this is true even when the customer does not benefit. For example, my mother is in a nursing home run by Fraser Health, a monopoly corporation (where the standards keep going down but not the price, a whole other thread). Anyway, the labour pool for people to take positions there is not who is best qualified, not who has the best relationship with the residents, works the hardest etc. It is whoever is next in line. But it get's worse...

The labour pool used to be the facility. Now it is the entire Fraser Health system. You would think that those who know the residents best would get advancement and new positions. No.

They have no supervisors (I know what this is about - I used to work at a union job at UBC and I loathed how there was no army-like chain of command. We had 'job descriptions', low and middle level management didn't exist, they thought it was 'fascist' or something bizarre like that. At the 'nursing home' it is almost impossible to get rid of a bad employee there. Don't get me started...

And Fraser Health keeps hiring a lot of part-time and casual instead of getting more full-timers. I am quite vocal about my anti-union stance and for that I am not well-liked. Fortunately it hasn't affected how my mother is treated.

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