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Stop Shooting Mamma Moose!

Stop Shooting Mamma Moose!

Postby Glacier » Jan 2nd, 2018, 12:41 pm

I was out in the Chilcotin last week, and saw huge signs put up at the edge of the reservations around Alexis Creek and Anahim Lake telling people to stop shooting the mamma moose. These signs have been put up after one first nations person in Anahim Lake was caught bragging about bagging 90 moose over the past two years, and since the moose have mysteriously been in precipitous decline in the Chilcotin even before the fires of last summer, the government had to act.

First Nations people are human like the rest of us, and thus I think it's time to change the laws such that they also have to report their kills (and to kill during hunting season instead of year-round). Most First Nations are responsible hunters, but having a gaping loophole so large that just one or two bad apples can get away with decimating the entire population on their own without being charged with a crime is not good for anyone - first nation and otherwise.

Laws are there, not for the responsible hunters, but for the bad apples who will keep killing until there are no more buffalo left, so to speak. Given the fact that the first nations population is growing at twice the rate of the non-indigenous population, the few bad applies among first nations will be able to cause even more harm in the future. Perhaps it's time to act now before ungulates are extirpated.
Last edited by Glacier on Jan 2nd, 2018, 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Stop Shooting Mamma Moose!

Postby Queen K » Jan 2nd, 2018, 12:46 pm

Could not agree more Glacier.

It's time to put an end to double laws and carnage.
Our saddest days are when we add up our losses, and losses seem to be our saddest when we lose our best. Proud to be a "Leaf-licker" and I know who else is too. **smiles**

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Re: Stop Shooting Mamma Moose!

Postby hobbyguy » Jan 2nd, 2018, 2:58 pm

http://www.merrittherald.com/vohringer-canadas-moose-population-is-in-trouble/

A vast network of roads taking hunters into remote areas and airplanes that reach into even remoter places have made it possible for hunters to pursue moose in regions that were inaccessible a few decades ago. The foundation also found that unregulated hunting by First Nation hunters combined with the easy access and habitat loss is also a big problem.

Regulated hunters have to abide by strict hunting regulations, kill quotas and short hunting seasons. Unregulated hunters on the other hand are granted “traditional rights” to hunt moose all year round and are not bound by any quota restrictions or other laws pertaining to season length.

By a ruling of the Supreme Court of Canada, Aboriginal hunters have even been given the right to hunt moose at night. Apparently aboriginal people of old hunted at night too, but surely they did not have pickup trucks equipped with halogen lights capable of lighting the night up like a football field to blind the animals, making them easy targets.

"The ancestors of Aboriginals also did not have ATV’s, snow machines and modern centrefire rifles capable of long distance shooting. The “traditional hunt” was done on foot, spending days, often weeks finding moose and then the hunter needed to get very close to the moose (on foot) to place a killing shot with a primitive bow.

That type of hunting barely made a dent in the moose population — not like today where many unregulated hunters shoot any moose they can find, regardless of age or gender.

Another difference from then and now is that in the old days aboriginal hunters only took what they needed for sustenance and barter, whereas today many shoot more than they need and sell the rest.

If Canada’s moose population is to remain viable, it is imperative that all hunting is regulated — including Aboriginal hunting. The federal and provincial governments, together with regulated hunters and First Nations have to come up with a sound conservation program or we will see in the not-so-distant future that moose are added to the list of endangered species."
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: Stop Shooting Mamma Moose!

Postby vegas1500 » Jan 2nd, 2018, 5:36 pm

Glacier wrote:I was out in the Chilcotin last week, and saw huge signs put up at the edge of the reservations around Alexis Creek and Anahim Lake telling people to stop shooting the mamma moose. These signs have been put up after one first nations person in Anahim Lake was caught bragging about bagging 90 moose over the past two years, and since the moose have mysteriously been in precipitous decline in the Chilcotin even before the fires of last summer, the government had to act.

First Nations people are human like the rest of us, and thus I think it's time to change the laws such that they also have to report their kills (and to kill during hunting season instead of year-round). Most First Nations are responsible hunters, but having a gaping loophole so large that just a one or two bad apples to get away with decimating the entire population on their own without being charged with a crime is not good for anyone - first nation and otherwise.

Laws are there, not for the responsible hunters, but for the bad apples who will keep killing until there are no more buffalo left, so to speak. Given the fact that the first nations population is growing at twice the rate of the non-indigenous population, the few bad applies among first nations will be able to cause even more harm in the future. Perhaps it's time to act now before ungulates are extirpated.



If that’s true about the 90 moose, it makes me sick. What would someone do with all that meat....most likely sell it just like they do with the fish they take. Makes me want to throw up....

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Re: Stop Shooting Mamma Moose!

Postby twobits » Jan 2nd, 2018, 7:01 pm

I think it's pretty clear that unless some kind of reporting system and limits are put on FN harvesting, the self professed stewards of the land will be responsible for the virtual extinction of all ungulates within reach of a road or quad. And then they will try to blame the non indigenous population for the decimation.
90 moose for lord's sake?? Why doesn't FN leadership themselves police people like this. They have tools in their own societal rules to deal with clear abusers like this. What do we hear from respected Elders on such killing practices? Silence.
Hunters such as this should be smacked and shunned by their own community.
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Re: Stop Shooting Mamma Moose!

Postby Catsumi » Jan 2nd, 2018, 8:36 pm

I try to imagine 90 moose carcasses laid out on a parking lot and I think of future generations lost forever.

Is this the way to oversee wildlife populations? Is it possible the proud "hunter" gets away with this travesty against nature?

:-X
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Re: Stop Shooting Mamma Moose!

Postby generalposter » Jan 2nd, 2018, 8:49 pm

This is just the tip of the iceberg and I'm glad you brought this story to our attention. Despicable.

Few city people are aware of the year round slaughter that takes place in all areas of BC at the hands of poachers hiding under the guise of being FN. I have personally found the gut piles of many deer and moose in the Bear Creek area in the winter months. Cow moose, calf's and does as the heads are usually left behind. Always close to roads and given away by the ravens.

When photos and shell casings were given to the CO I was told they are fully aware of who's doing it and their hands are tied in respect to pressing charges.

I posed this exact question of illegal hunting to one of the resident FN advocates on this board and was met with silence. Cow elk in Penticton, California Big Horn sheep in Kamloops, many deer in Ashcroft area. Reefer units on FSR's in mid August idling away while the animals are killed and collected. It doesn't end.

The animals no longer have a single day in the year when they aren't being shot at in one place or another. It makes me sick to my stomach and the worst part is no one, and I mean no one, will step forward to admit it and address the issue.

Guess who will be blamed when the populations are completely decimated and there is nothing left. Who will be whining the loudest?

Do not allow yourselves here to be goaded into saying things that result in a locked or absent thread. This needs to be kept honest yet civil. Some people want this information hushed as it is an embarrassment and there are no logical ways to justify it.

The more this is spoken of the better. Somewhere deep down there must be a sense of shame to match all this pride and bravado that is put forward. Despicable.

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Re: Stop Shooting Mamma Moose!

Postby dirtybiker » Jan 2nd, 2018, 9:06 pm

As someone else mentioned in another thread, and also in a
previous post. These few Indians are not going about their hunts in
their traditional ways.
How about, back to the bow and arrow, a knife,, a saddleless horse, or on foot.
Previously harvested and tanned hides for clothing. little else.

Other than that, the ones doing this are nothing but poachers and should be held
accountable by White mans court and ostrasized by their own Councils.

Thank you for bringing this to the forefront, It should have top billing on every news
story there is !

ETA: This is my PC version :smt045
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Re: Stop Shooting Mamma Moose!

Postby generalposter » Jan 2nd, 2018, 9:28 pm

Here's another example of what's going on with local poachers:

I spoke to a meat cutter in Kelowna and he described FN's individuals lined up at his door when he arrived to work at 7 am. He felt badly for them because they had been up all night driving and shooting moose. They were cold and tired from filling two pickup trucks with moose. He said that it was common for them to be at his door come morning and an unbelievable amount of moose were being brought down the hill. He seemed quite proud of it all as his business is really busy.

When will this be addressed? I will start sending letters to the appropriate ministries starting with the Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resources.

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Re: Stop Shooting Mamma Moose!

Postby dirtybiker » Jan 2nd, 2018, 9:33 pm

Since when does an Indian need a butchers services ?

Add that to the list; Field dress and process their own cuts !
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Re: Stop Shooting Mamma Moose!

Postby vegas1500 » Jan 2nd, 2018, 9:36 pm

generalposter wrote:Here's another example of what's going on with local poachers:

I spoke to a meat cutter in Kelowna and he described FN's individuals lined up at his door when he arrived to work at 7 am. He felt badly for them because they had been up all night driving and shooting moose. They were cold and tired from filling two pickup trucks with moose. He said that it was common for them to be at his door come morning and an unbelievable amount of moose were being brought down the hill. He seemed quite proud of it all as his business is really busy.

When will this be addressed? I will start sending letters to the appropriate ministries starting with the Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resources.


And people wonder why their is a dislike for FN’s..........this makes me so angry I’d like to have open season on ..........

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Re: Stop Shooting Mamma Moose!

Postby Walking Wounded » Jan 2nd, 2018, 10:32 pm

It certainly is time for one set of rules for all people, it makes no difference who was here first. We are all here together now and supposedly all equal but the rules we must live by say that we are not equal in the eyes of the government. Until the day arrives that there is only one set of rules for all the people in this country nothing will change.
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Re: Stop Shooting Mamma Moose!

Postby Glacier » Jan 3rd, 2018, 12:39 am

Change needs to happen, and in my view, that can only happen with respectful dialogue. It's perfectly understandable that many first nations would view this topic with suspicion, so we must be clear that regulation is not an infringement of rights. In the US they have a right to bear arms, but there are many restrictions and regulations. It's not an infringement of rights to ban full autos or to mandate a gun safety course. Similarly, it's not an infringement of aboriginal rights to regulate and manage hunting in the name of science and conservation. Failure to do so will make the right to hunt meaningless.

P.S. I know a crazy guy whose mother is half native so he goes around shooting everything he sees. He's a complete lazy jackass (which he has mostly inherited from his jackass irresponsible drunk white dad), and he sees nothing wrong with driving down logging roads blasting every animal he sees. He considers it a fun game, and not so much about supplying food for his family.

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Re: Stop Shooting Mamma Moose!

Postby generalposter » Jan 3rd, 2018, 10:05 am

Here's a moose that wasn't killed by poachers. Good people to save it like they did.

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#215270
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Re: Stop Shooting Mamma Moose!

Postby Fancy » Jan 3rd, 2018, 10:23 am

And then you have this highway accident and I'm assuming another moose killed:
An Edmonton man says he’s lucky to be alive after hitting a moose on a dark Alberta highway. He was driving from the Whitecourt area to Edmonton when the moose stepped out onto the highway.

https://globalnews.ca/video/3917882/edm ... paign=2018

How many times does that happen on BC highways? BC can't afford to lose the numbers of moose they are losing.
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