ICBC

[my5cents]

Here's the link, it was on W5

https://www.ctvnews.ca/w5/investigation ... -1.3836092

[jimmy4321]

Should be PRIVATE insurance only.
The gov can handle testing, licensing, registrations, etc.

Then the gov can have photo radar on every street and intersection they believe can make a buck.

No more Billion dollar losses, no more accusations of raiding the cookie jar, no more trying to save the titanic with a stick of bubblegum.

[my5cents]

Should be PRIVATE insurance only.
The gov can handle testing, licensing, registrations, etc.

Then the gov can have photo radar on every street and intersection they believe can make a buck.

No more Billion dollar losses, no more accusations of raiding the cookie jar, no more trying to save the titanic with a stick of bubblegum.

Yup, private insurance has a magical system of lowering claims costs.

The Liberal government did steal profits from ICBC, the mob would call it skimming, but over a, what, 10 - 15 year period took what ICBC's deficit if for one year, now ?

Why people think private insurance would somehow defeat all the problems ICBC has, is beyond me.

"The gov can handle testing, licensing, registration, etc," So how much will that cost to run ?

[jimmy4321]

You think this hybrid gov is gonna be there forever?
They should have the future in mind and scrap ICBC.

[seewood]

Should be PRIVATE insurance only. The gov can handle testing, licensing, registrations, etc.

This NDP government ( if you want to call this lot a government) will NEVER dismantle the late Dave Barret's legacy. Never.
The past government allowed private insurers to provide third party? taking a healthy sum of profit generating funds from ICBC.
No fan of the NDP, however the original premise of ICBC was great. However it has turned into a piggy bank of both political parties and until they can resist the temptation to dip into it to cover the governments operating costs, ICBC will always have financing issues. Also this lot in power should have the cajones to limit the amount paid out in body injury claims. Works in other jurisdictions with public insurance.

[Hurtlander]

You think this hybrid gov is gonna be there forever?
They should have the future in mind and scrap ICBC.

If ICBC was and still could be very good for the people of BC. The Social Credit governments from 1975 to 1991 had every opportunity to scrap ICBC but they didn’t because ICBC was a benefit to the province.....
However from 1991 onwards both the NDP and especially the Liberals began dipping their dirty fingers in the ICBC cookie jar, that’s when things started going downhill. The reason I say “especially the Liberals” was because the one or two times NDP government of the 90’s milked the ICBC cash cow they had to get authorization from the Auditor General to do so, whereas the Liberals simply passed legislation giving themselves the right to milk the ICBC cash cow any time they desired..ICBC just needs to be run the way it was from 1973 to 1991 to be successful again.

[hobbyguy]

You think this hybrid gov is gonna be there forever?
They should have the future in mind and scrap ICBC.

If ICBC was and still could be very good for the people of BC. The Social Credit governments from 1975 to 1991 had every opportunity to scrap ICBC but they didn’t because ICBC was a benefit to the province.....
However from 1991 onwards both the NDP and especially the Liberals began dipping their dirty fingers in the ICBC cookie jar, that’s when things started going downhill. The reason I say “especially the Liberals” was because the one or two times NDP government of the 90’s milked the ICBC cash cow they had to get authorization from the Auditor General to do so, whereas the Liberals simply passed legislation giving themselves the right to milk the ICBC cash cow any time they desired..ICBC just needs to be run the way it was from 1973 to 1991 to be successful again.

IF you actually examine the history of political interference that posted within this thread, and think about it, the "cost dumping" that the BC NDP did to ICBC in the 1990s - when converted to today's $$$ - is actually greater in effect than the dividends that were paid in recent Liberal years. Plus, without the reforms the Liberals put in during the Campbell era, there would have been no kitty to raid.

IF you really wanted to "fix" ICBC, one need only look to the period during the Campbell years where ICBC was coining $$$, and the Van Der Zalm era, which corresponded with NO government interference at all. But I doubt we will see the BC NDP do that. The simple solution was to let the pros run it, and get the heck out of the way... leave oversight to the BCUC, and depoliticize ICBC. The BC NDP just LOVE to politicize crown corporations, and mess about with them.

[my5cents]

This NDP government ( if you want to call this lot a government) will NEVER dismantle the late Dave Barret's legacy. Never.
The past government allowed private insurers to provide third party? taking a healthy sum of profit generating funds from ICBC.
No fan of the NDP, however the original premise of ICBC was great. However it has turned into a piggy bank of both political parties and until they can resist the temptation to dip into it to cover the governments operating costs, ICBC will always have financing issues. Also this lot in power should have the cajones to limit the amount paid out in body injury claims. Works in other jurisdictions with public insurance.

Private insurers can only provide third party liability that is in excess of the $200,000 mandatory, which ICBC has a monopoly on. That first $200,000 third party liability is the ONLY part of BC auto insurance that ICBC has a monopoly on, something many forget.

[my5cents]

IF you actually examine the history of political interference that posted within this thread, and think about it, the "cost dumping" that the BC NDP did to ICBC in the 1990s - when converted to today's $$$ - is actually greater in effect than the dividends that were paid in recent Liberal years. Plus, without the reforms the Liberals put in during the Campbell era, there would have been no kitty to raid.

IF you really wanted to "fix" ICBC, one need only look to the period during the Campbell years where ICBC was coining $$$, and the Van Der Zalm era, which corresponded with NO government interference at all. But I doubt we will see the BC NDP do that. The simple solution was to let the pros run it, and get the heck out of the way... leave oversight to the BCUC, and depoliticize ICBC. The BC NDP just LOVE to politicize crown corporations, and mess about with them.

I'd be very interesting in reading about the "cost dumping" that the BC NDP did in the 1990's, how about a link ?

[hobbyguy]

IF you actually examine the history of political interference that posted within this thread, and think about it, the "cost dumping" that the BC NDP did to ICBC in the 1990s - when converted to today's $$$ - is actually greater in effect than the dividends that were paid in recent Liberal years. Plus, without the reforms the Liberals put in during the Campbell era, there would have been no kitty to raid.

IF you really wanted to "fix" ICBC, one need only look to the period during the Campbell years where ICBC was coining $$$, and the Van Der Zalm era, which corresponded with NO government interference at all. But I doubt we will see the BC NDP do that. The simple solution was to let the pros run it, and get the heck out of the way... leave oversight to the BCUC, and depoliticize ICBC. The BC NDP just LOVE to politicize crown corporations, and mess about with them.

I'd be very interesting in reading about the "cost dumping" that the BC NDP did in the 1990's, how about a link ?

Here it is again: http://www.bcpolicyperspectives.com/media/attachments/view/doc/article_bc_studies_icbc_2013/pdf

In the 1990s the NDP transferred the following costs to ICBC, and took them off the government books:

- traffic safety initiatives, including photo radar
- vehicle licensing
- fine collection services
- driver licensing
- medical costs incurred in accidents were transferred from MSP to ICBC
- commercial transport and compliance operations

AND at the same time had ICBC remitting net licensing proceeds to the government.

Rough guess - the 1990s NDP dumped $120 million in 1997 cost $$$ on ICBC and took any profit from that back as a "fee" (dividend - whatever you choose to parse it as). Multiply all that out by the years since....

And you can bet the BC NDP plan for ICBC to pay for the new photo radar....

[my5cents]

Here it is again: http://www.bcpolicyperspectives.com/media/attachments/view/doc/article_bc_studies_icbc_2013/pdf

In the 1990s the NDP transferred the following costs to ICBC, and took them off the government books:

- traffic safety initiatives, including photo radar
- vehicle licensing
- fine collection services
- driver licensing
- medical costs incurred in accidents were transferred from MSP to ICBC
- commercial transport and compliance operations

AND at the same time had ICBC remitting net licensing proceeds to the government.

Rough guess - the 1990s NDP dumped $120 million in 1997 cost $$$ on ICBC and took any profit from that back as a "fee" (dividend - whatever you choose to parse it as). Multiply all that out by the years since....

And you can bet the BC NDP plan for ICBC to pay for the new photo radar....

All thoses initiatives are directly related to the operation of motor vehicles in BC. That's a big stretch to compare those to the Liberals declaring dividends from ICBC and putting the funds directly into general revenue.

All those areas are ways government auto insurance benefit a province.

For example, do you think injuries incurred in an auto collision should be paid by MSP ?

I think it's very short sighted to think an ideal way to form a government auto insurance company is to merely place an insurance company in a monopoly position. The benefit to govt insurance is the peripherals added to monopoly book of insurance.

If you approached ANY private auto insurer and proposed that (with no change in legislation, limiting civil payouts) they take over the 100% monopoly for the first $200,000 PLPD, and compete with all other private companies for the entire rest of auto insurance in BC, like ICBC does at this moment, you wouldn't get any takers.

[hobbyguy]

Here it is again: http://www.bcpolicyperspectives.com/media/attachments/view/doc/article_bc_studies_icbc_2013/pdf

In the 1990s the NDP transferred the following costs to ICBC, and took them off the government books:

- traffic safety initiatives, including photo radar
- vehicle licensing
- fine collection services
- driver licensing
- medical costs incurred in accidents were transferred from MSP to ICBC
- commercial transport and compliance operations

AND at the same time had ICBC remitting net licensing proceeds to the government.

Rough guess - the 1990s NDP dumped $120 million in 1997 cost $$$ on ICBC and took any profit from that back as a "fee" (dividend - whatever you choose to parse it as). Multiply all that out by the years since....

And you can bet the BC NDP plan for ICBC to pay for the new photo radar....

All thoses initiatives are directly related to the operation of motor vehicles in BC. That's a big stretch to compare those to the Liberals declaring dividends from ICBC and putting the funds directly into general revenue.

All those areas are ways government auto insurance benefit a province.

For example, do you think injuries incurred in an auto collision should be paid by MSP ?

I think it's very short sighted to think an ideal way to form a government auto insurance company is to merely place an insurance company in a monopoly position. The benefit to govt insurance is the peripherals added to monopoly book of insurance.

If you approached ANY private auto insurer and proposed that (with no change in legislation, limiting civil payouts) they take over the 100% monopoly for the first $200,000 PLPD, and compete with all other private companies for the entire rest of auto insurance in BC, like ICBC does at this moment, you wouldn't get any takers.

You missed the point. The BC NDP used ICBC to dump costs that would have been paid for out of "general revenues" and so make their budgets look better, then made sure ICBC couldn't make anything on those costs - sending any efficiencies back to "general revenues". Two ways you can influence a provincial budget using crown corps - A) dump costs on them or B) take the profits. Although the BC NDP reverse engineered that with Treo, bringing the costs into the provincial budget/debt and transferring the revenue to the junior varsity BC NDP - which is rather perverse.

[my5cents]

You missed the point. The BC NDP used ICBC to dump costs that would have been paid for out of "general revenues" and so make their budgets look better, then made sure ICBC couldn't make anything on those costs - sending any efficiencies back to "general revenues". Two ways you can influence a provincial budget using crown corps - A) dump costs on them or B) take the profits. Although the BC NDP reverse engineered that with Treo, bringing the costs into the provincial budget/debt and transferring the revenue to the junior varsity BC NDP - which is rather perverse.

Oh I got your point, I just think the joining all those services together was the way to go.

This govt you talk about... what's the difference if I pay $75 bucks for my DL renewal to ICBC that, because of it's amalgamation of databases and mailing services etc, can produce thar DL for a few bucks. The govt gets the $75, reducing the need to tax me that $75.

[hobbyguy]

You missed the point. The BC NDP used ICBC to dump costs that would have been paid for out of "general revenues" and so make their budgets look better, then made sure ICBC couldn't make anything on those costs - sending any efficiencies back to "general revenues". Two ways you can influence a provincial budget using crown corps - A) dump costs on them or B) take the profits. Although the BC NDP reverse engineered that with Treo, bringing the costs into the provincial budget/debt and transferring the revenue to the junior varsity BC NDP - which is rather perverse.

Oh I got your point, I just think the joining all those services together was the way to go.

This govt you talk about... what's the difference if I pay $75 bucks for my DL renewal to ICBC that, because of it's amalgamation of databases and mailing services etc, can produce thar DL for a few bucks. The govt gets the $75, reducing the need to tax me that $75.

So just as many will make the point that taking dividends is "back door" taxation, cost dumping on crown corps is also "back door" taxation - unless other taxation is decreased (which doesn't happen in most cases).

That gets to the point in general, being that the 1990s BC NDP transformed ICBC from being a stand alone insurance company - as Dave Barrett had envisioned - into a government bureaucracy that provides insurance. That reality actually misleads folks in their view of ICBC as an insurer. You are NOT just paying for insurance, you are paying for a lot of things that an insurance company does not provide.

[Hurtlander]

That gets to the point in general, being that the 1990s BC NDP transformed ICBC from being a stand alone insurance company - as Dave Barrett had envisioned - into a government bureaucracy that provides insurance. That reality actually misleads folks in their view of ICBC as an insurer. You are NOT just paying for insurance, you are paying for a lot of things that an insurance company does not provide.

The 1990’s NDP transforming ICBC into a bloated government bureaucracy must’ve been a good idea since the Libs did absolutely nothing from to change ICBC back to being a stand alone insurance company.