Alberta pulls plug on B.C./Wine

[ferri]

Do not start making this personal. Stay on topic!

[Merry]

I don't think ANYONE wants to see our environment harmed. But that said, the fact is that Alberta's oil WILL be moved to the coast with or without the proposed pipeline expansion. So the issue then becomes what is the safest, most environmentally sound way of doing that? And the answer is via pipeline.

Many of those opposed to the pipeline expansion are hoping that it's demise will eventually lead to the demise of the oilsands. But that will not happen.

And others opposed to the pipeline expansion are hoping it will result in no tanker traffic on our coast.
But that will not happen.

All that will happen is that the BC, Alberta and Canadian economy in general will be severely damaged. Which will mean less money for future environmental protection, less money for social programs such as health care, and fewer jobs.

[CapitalB]

I don't think ANYONE wants to see our environment harmed. But that said, the fact is that Alberta's oil WILL be moved to the coast with or without the proposed pipeline expansion. So the issue then becomes what is the safest, most environmentally sound way of doing that? And the answer is via pipeline.

Many of those opposed to the pipeline expansion are hoping that it's demise will eventually lead to the demise of the oilsands. But that will not happen.

And others opposed to the pipeline expansion are hoping it will result in no tanker traffic on our coast.
But that will not happen.

All that will happen is that the BC, Alberta and Canadian economy in general will be severely damaged. Which will mean less money for future environmental protection, less money for social programs such as health care, and fewer jobs.

I absolutely agree with everything you said.

I think for the moderate environmental protectionist people we just don't think due diligence has been done to make sure the pipelines will be done safely and just want to see that happen. Its argued that it has been done, but the people on the moderate environmental protectionist side think that previous and current federal and provincial governments were just going through the motions of ensuring the pipelines would be safe. I feel like a whole lot of time has been wasted making vague unenforceable guidelines and disaster reaction plans that have, by most educated (scientists in that field that don't work for an oil company) accounts, been created without a lot of actual science involved.

If the powers that be had just done things properly from the start everything could potentially have gone a bit smoother. Unfortunately from my (and many others) perspective we've had federal and provincial governments were more interested in kissing corporate butt than protecting our land.

[rustled]

When people use "due diligence" as their reason for objecting, I often wonder if it they are only able to see what they want to see, or if they actually have a point. I found this interesting and informative:
https://www.castanet.net/news/Letters/2 ... ine-safety

[Merry]

Capital B - So you don't think that ANY of the conditions applied are of any use?

The NEB recommended that project for approval in May, along with 157 environmental, financial and technical conditions.

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2016/1 ... e-projects

What conditions do you think need to be added?

[CapitalB]

You guys keep pointing at in place regulations when a solid two thirds of my post was about inadequate response to spills.

Also having 157 regulations in place doesn't make them good regulations, and at least 1500 PHd Student scientists don't think they've based their regulations on scientific evidence so the scientific community doesn't really seem to be fully on board with our preparedness.

[The Green Barbarian]

You guys are always claiming environmentalists are deliberately trying to destroy the economy. Don't like having the tables flipped?

Once again, Cathy Newman rears her ugly head, as you completely misrepresent what people are saying, to sell a false narrative. Truly sad.

[The Green Barbarian]

I think for the moderate environmental protectionist people we just don't think due diligence has been done to make sure the pipelines will be done safely and just want to see that happen.

why would you think this? Other than lies and bafflegab being presented as facts by US "environmental" groups, why would anyone but the most guillible and hare-brained have a reason to doubt that the "due diligence" hasn't been done? Where is the proof? Where is the justification???

Unfortunately from my (and many others) perspective we've had federal and provincial governments were more interested in kissing corporate butt than protecting our land.

Just complete and utter crap. Total crap.

[rustled]

You guys keep pointing at in place regulations when a solid two thirds of my post was about inadequate response to spills.

Also having 157 regulations in place doesn't make them good regulations, and at least 1500 PHd Student scientists don't think they've based their regulations on scientific evidence so the scientific community doesn't really seem to be fully on board with our preparedness.

WADR, perhaps it's because you keep pointing to "inadequate response to spills" and ignoring the bigger picture? One of the benefits of the TMX deal is the huge improvements to spill response (all spills, not just those related to TMX), and the vastly reduced likelihood of spills related to trains.

Again, WADR, it seems to me there's a lot of confirmation/perception bias in your posts.

[The Green Barbarian]

Also having 157 regulations in place doesn't make them good regulations, and at least 1500 PHd Student scientists don't think they've based their regulations on scientific evidence so the scientific community doesn't really seem to be fully on board with our preparedness.

This is total crap. Complete crap. These "students" have no idea, they are just signing a petition. Any idiot could sign a petition. When all you see are lies being presented as "evidence", it's obvious who is in the right and who isn't.

[Merry]

Capital B - Those "phd" student scientists you refer to, don't actually have their PHD's yet. They are

people within a few years of completing their PhDs or post-doctoral studies. None of them have permanent jobs

And I got that from the article you, yourself, quoted.

Also, just exactly what kind of "science" do these folks study? The last time I read a petition from so called "scientists" it turned out they weren't the kind that would know squat about protecting our coast from oil spills.

There are many, many different fields of science. For example, you wouldn't ask a foot doctor to give you a heart transplant would you?

[CapitalB]

Capital B - Those "phd" student scientists you refer to, don't actually have their PHD's yet. They are

people within a few years of completing their PhDs or post-doctoral studies. None of them have permanent jobs

And I got that from the article you, yourself, quoted.

Also, just exactly what kind of "science" do these folks study? The last time I read a petition from so called "scientists" it turned out they weren't the kind that would know squat about protecting our coast from oil spills.

There are many, many different fields of science. For example, you wouldn't ask a foot doctor to give you a heart transplant would you?

Thus S T U D E N T S. Otherwise they would be Post graduate or doctorate students.

[Merry]

Thus S T U D E N T S. Otherwise they would be Post graduate or doctorate students.

Yes, but STUDENTS of what exactly? As I already said, "science" is a catch all term that covers many fields. For the opinions of these students to have any weight they would have to be studying in a relevant field.

[hobbyguy]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/neb-allows-additional-construction-on-trans-mountain-pipeline/article38001861/

"Similarly and frustratingly, John Horgan is actually trying to scuttle our national plan on fighting climate change," Mr. Trudeau said. "By blocking the Kinder Morgan pipeline, he's putting at risk the entire national climate-change plan, because Alberta will not be able to stay on if the Kinder Morgan pipeline doesn't go through."

Horgan remains on the wrong side of protecting the environment, and he and the hopeless excuse Heyman are threatening real progress on the environment for all of Canada.

The chicken little alarmists will yap on about spills that just don't happen, and Horgan and especially Heyman, the disgraced Gregor Robertson, and the despicable demovictions Derek are only serving their personal pecuniary and political interests by helping gin up nonsense.

Gregor has all but been fired. His lackey Meggs deserted the sinking ship like a rat and ran to Horgan's office. Heyman should be fired. Corrigan is likely to chicken out and not run.

None of this illegal and unconstitutional stunt playing by these clowns stands up to any reasoned scrutiny. They are Trumoing their base, and the BC NDP are so scared of the Greens why? Because the BC NDP are playing a game they can not win. Weaver has them right where he wants them.

Who pays for all this nonsense? The working folks of BC and Alberta, and in the end it will be the working folks of BC that pay the highest price.

Horgan has to back down, and start making rational decisions, not playing silly childish games - and fire the twerp Heyman as part of that.

[CapitalB]

/ Not related to previous posts.

Was just reading the article about Notley's deadline and committee to find ways to increase pressure on BC; Regardless of how you feel about the issue, her ramping up pressure is not giving Horgan an 'exit strategy' that lets him save face. Now if he reverses the decision or changes his mind it looks like he caved to external pressure, which in politic games is generally bad form. The more pressure she applies the harder it gets for the current BC government to change its mind without looking even worse to their voters. Especially after the throne speech where Horgan specifically said he was trying to let the issue cool down, it really seems to adds weight to the possibility that this is at least to some degree a re election tactic.