Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby flamingfingers » Feb 23rd, 2018, 7:07 pm

Following hard on the heels of the mismanagement of the ICBC file to the tune of $1.3 BILLION dollars, he has a bit of a problem with the 'Employer Health Tax'. Now it may be entirely possible that he misunderstood what his constituent said, or the constituent did not fully understand the 'Employer Health Tax"....or maybe they are both severely math challenged. Or is it possible this small company is charging rates that allow them to pay their 13 employees $700,000 each per year?? Maybe ask for a quote first, eh?
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Last edited by flamingfingers on Feb 23rd, 2018, 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Why do people who fancy themselves "fiscal conservatives" not scream at hidden debt accumulated in the past dozen years? Or, do they only object to spending on social programs?

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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby Hurtlander » Feb 23rd, 2018, 7:39 pm

Todd Stone is a joke, the rank and file members of the Liberal party of BC acknowledged this by placing him fourth during their recent leadership vote.
The only effective answer to organized greed is organized labor.
--Thomas Donahue

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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby flamingfingers » Feb 23rd, 2018, 8:04 pm

Carole James states that stats show 85% of employers pay MSP premiums for their employees. As of this past January, MSP premiums were reduced by 50%. Does that not save these businesses money???

The "Employer Health Tax" does not impact until the employers' PAYROLL reaches $500,000. That means an employer with 10 employees making $50,000 per year does not pay the "Employer Health Tax".

Compare this with Ontario who also has an "Employer Health Tax":

https://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/tax/eht/index.html
Scroll down to "Tax Rates".
Why do people who fancy themselves "fiscal conservatives" not scream at hidden debt accumulated in the past dozen years? Or, do they only object to spending on social programs?
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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby Urbane » Feb 23rd, 2018, 8:21 pm

^^ Some businesses will be hard hit. It's fine to talk about the majority that may not be hard hit but we must remember those that are. Tell me why the MSP premiums weren't rolled into the income tax?? You were all for that as I recall.
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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby flamingfingers » Feb 23rd, 2018, 8:24 pm

Urbane wrote:^^ Some businesses will be hard hit. It's fine to talk about the majority that may not be hard hit but we must remember those that are. Tell me why the MSP premiums weren't rolled into the income tax?? You were all for that as I recall.


Which businesses Urb?
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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby Urbane » Feb 23rd, 2018, 8:35 pm

    flamingfingers wrote:
    Urbane wrote:^^ Some businesses will be hard hit. It's fine to talk about the majority that may not be hard hit but we must remember those that are. Tell me why the MSP premiums weren't rolled into the income tax?? You were all for that as I recall.


    Which businesses Urb?
You still won't answer my question and I haven't seen an answer from any other NDP'ers either. Rolling the MSP into the income tax was heralded on here as being the ultimate solution to replacing the MSP. So what happened??? Anyway, let's not pretend that some businesses won't be adversely affected by this new tax! BTW, Todd Stone is no longer in government. Better to discuss the decision-makers now who are in government.
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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby flamingfingers » Feb 23rd, 2018, 8:45 pm

Urbane wrote:

Rolling the MSP into the income tax was heralded on here as being the ultimate solution to replacing the MSP. So what happened?


Unfortunately Urb, and perhaps even MORE more fortunately, the government does not take any advice from a small online forum that is set deep within the heart of Socred/Liberal territory. And no one on this forum can, with any credibility, say they are mind readers when it comes to BC politicians.

Todd Stone's unfortunate statement took place in the Legislature and as such, deserves scrutiny equal to the answers given by the sitting government.

So now, answer my question, Urbane - WHAT businesses will be 'hard hit' by the Employer Health Tax?????
Why do people who fancy themselves "fiscal conservatives" not scream at hidden debt accumulated in the past dozen years? Or, do they only object to spending on social programs?

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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby hobbyguy » Feb 23rd, 2018, 8:52 pm

But why did the BC NDP renege on their promise to just roll the MSP premiums into the income tax? That IS what they said they would do!

Looks to me like some nutbar got it the way of flawed policy that was better than what the BC NDP wound up doing. The choice for too many British Columbians will wind up now being: "MSP premiums or a job?" - methinks they would be happier paying the reduced MSP premiums and having a job.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby flamingfingers » Feb 23rd, 2018, 8:56 pm

hg wrote:

choice for too many British Columbians will wind up now being: "MSP premiums or a job?"


Like WHICH British Columbians?
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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby Urbane » Feb 23rd, 2018, 8:58 pm

    flamingfingers wrote:Unfortunately Urb, and perhaps even MORE more fortunately, the government does not take any advice from a small online forum that is set deep within the heart of Socred/Liberal territory. And no one on this forum can, with any credibility, say they are mind readers when it comes to BC politicians.

    Todd Stone's unfortunate statement took place in the Legislature and as such, deserves scrutiny equal to the answers given by the sitting government.

    So now, answer my question, Urbane - WHAT businesses will be 'hard hit' by the Employer Health Tax?????

You still won't answer my question! I didn't ask you why those in the government aren't looking at these forums. You and other NDP'ers wanted to see the MSP premiums rolled into the income tax but instead the NDP government is asking some businesses to bear the brunt of replacing the MSP. Since you won't answer the question I'll answer it: Whatever Horgan does you'll be okay with it even if you've argued for something else in the past. Horgan changes his mind so you do too. Party loyalty and all that.

The answer to your question is that any businesses with a payroll of over $500,000 will be responsible for paying this new tax. You want the names of the businesses?? I don't see why we needed a new tax on business at the same time that the minimum wage is being raised. There will be some negative consequences for some businesses and higher prices for consumers as well. It's not a good idea.
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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby hobbyguy » Feb 23rd, 2018, 9:02 pm

flamingfingers wrote:hg wrote:

choice for too many British Columbians will wind up now being: "MSP premiums or a job?"


Like WHICH British Columbians?


Duh! The ones that get laid off or not hired.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby rustled » Feb 23rd, 2018, 9:08 pm

Looks like Stone probably did what I did in my initial calculations and misplaced a decimal.

I don't think most businesses will be particularly hard hit by the health tax, although some where labour is the bulk of their expense may be. It will be interesting to hear more from the business sector.

To my mind, there are three problems here: the additional unexpected cost for many businesses that did not pay their employees' MSP; the overlap year where those who are paying their employees' MSP pay both it AND the health tax; and the compounding effect of adding yet another cost to businesses on top of the compounding effects of the minimum wage hike and the carbon tax hike. Some of these increases have been sprung on the business owners.

For many, this is "death by a thousand cuts".

I, too, wonder why this was heaped on businesses instead of rolled into income tax.

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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby Urbane » Feb 23rd, 2018, 9:58 pm

Some interesting points here:

Iain Black, CEO of the Greater Vancouver Board of Trade, a non-profit with 35 employees and a payroll of $2 million, said the new tax will cost his organization $39,000 and almost completely wipe out a contingency fund.

“Although the finance minister says small businesses won’t be affected because those with payrolls under $500,000 are exempt, we beg to differ. She has arbitrarily changed the definition of a small business. Companies with eight to 12 people will be hit hard with this mandatory tax and many will find themselves with lower net income. And don’t forget, 60 per cent of B.C. residents are employed by small businesses.’

According to government figures, there are about 400,000 businesses in B.C.

“This tax disproportionately affects small businesses,” Black said. “And the government is failing to comprehend that small businesses already operate on thin margins.”
Full article: http://vancouversun.com/health/local-he ... health-tax
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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby rustled » Feb 23rd, 2018, 10:09 pm

Urbane wrote:Some interesting points here:

Iain Black, CEO of the Greater Vancouver Board of Trade, a non-profit with 35 employees and a payroll of $2 million, said the new tax will cost his organization $39,000 and almost completely wipe out a contingency fund.

“Although the finance minister says small businesses won’t be affected because those with payrolls under $500,000 are exempt, we beg to differ. She has arbitrarily changed the definition of a small business. Companies with eight to 12 people will be hit hard with this mandatory tax and many will find themselves with lower net income. And don’t forget, 60 per cent of B.C. residents are employed by small businesses.’

According to government figures, there are about 400,000 businesses in B.C.

“This tax disproportionately affects small businesses,” Black said. “And the government is failing to comprehend that small businesses already operate on thin margins.”
Full article: http://vancouversun.com/health/local-he ... health-tax

This is the sort of thing we'll be hearing more and more about in days to come.
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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby Snman » Feb 23rd, 2018, 10:13 pm

flamingfingers wrote:Carole James states that stats show 85% of employers pay MSP premiums for their employees. As of this past January, MSP premiums were reduced by 50%. Does that not save these businesses money???

The "Employer Health Tax" does not impact until the employers' PAYROLL reaches $500,000. That means an employer with 10 employees making $50,000 per year does not pay the "Employer Health Tax".

Compare this with Ontario who also has an "Employer Health Tax":

https://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/tax/eht/index.html
Scroll down to "Tax Rates".


Thanx for the post. I have to say that I am surprised by the statistic of 85% of employers paying MSP premiums. I have been working for 40 years and have never had my premiums paid and my spouse for only about ten years in the same span. Not to question the original post that Stone is an imbecile, mind you. I just found that stat interesting.
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