Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby Urbane » Feb 24th, 2018, 6:05 pm

    Old Techie wrote:I'm fairly certain a number of us have been saying more or less that all along.

    The budget as presented will hit those very ones, that the NDP is proclaiming they are helping.

    Business can't keep absorbing hits to its bottom line, which leave it limited choices, they close, they move elsewhere that's more business friendly, they pass the cost on to their product or services, or they eliminate some jobs to keep their payroll at current levels. None of these solutions helps the less fortunate in any way, shape, fashion, or form.

    There may be more housing on the market in the future, thanks to a recession, but with that comes unemployment, and with that, comes lack of ability to qualify for a mortgage.

    It's all connected.

For sure. The notion that businesses have a bottomless pit of money and that there would be no ramifications from extracting another $2-2.5 billion from them each year in the form of a health care tax is pretty naive. Businesses will react to stay afloat.
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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby flamingfingers » Feb 24th, 2018, 6:11 pm

OT wrote:

I'm fairly certain a number of us have been saying more or less that all along.


Wow! You change around like a weathervane!! First of all you sob about the poor business people who have to pay EHT and now you sob about the poor workers who will give up some pay because an employer hires them for a few dollars less.

Meanwhile neglecting to note that the MSP rate has been cut in half !!

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/heal ... anges-2018
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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby flamingfingers » Feb 24th, 2018, 6:15 pm

Urbane wrote:

For sure. The notion that businesses have a bottomless pit of money and that there would be no ramifications from extracting another $2-2.5 billion from them each year in the form of a health care tax is pretty naive. Businesses will react to stay afloat.


Of course, that is what I have always said - there are no benevolent employers!! Workers ALWAYS pay.
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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby Cactusflower » Feb 24th, 2018, 6:16 pm

Old Techie wrote:
Cactusflower wrote:No, Urb, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that no matter what the NDP does you guys will complain. Why don't you just come out and admit it.....you hate the NDP for one reason, and one reason only; because you're BC Liberal supporters?


As always your assessment is incorrect. I'd support any party that demonstrates competence, and some ethics, two attributes I've never noted in the NDP party.

Time and time again, they have demonstrated ineptitude, and that they are completely self serving, pretending to care about the rest of us, when the truth is anything but.

That's why I detest the NDP, and I doubt that I'm standing alone.

I would honestly have been willing to give them a chance, provided that after 16yrs in opposition, they demonstrated some humility, and willingness to address their shortcomings. Instead, all that time went by, and what do we have, the same old NDP, making the same old mistakes, and confirming for us, that they did nothing to keep abreast of important topics, during their time in opposition, or there wouldn't be a need to spend our money on endless studies.

They did absolutely zero homework, and yet feel they are qualified to govern. I think not.


So it's agreed then......there are only two sides in B.C. politics; the NDP, and the guys who 'detest' the NDP.
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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby Urban Cowboy » Feb 24th, 2018, 6:17 pm

flamingfingers wrote:OT wrote:

I'm fairly certain a number of us have been saying more or less that all along.


Wow! You change around like a weathervane!! First of all you sob about the poor business people who have to pay EHT and now you sob about the poor workers who will give up some pay because an employer hires them for a few dollars less.

Meanwhile neglecting to note that the MSP rate has been cut in half !!

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/heal ... anges-2018


It's difficult to conduct a rational discussion with someone who can't see how everything is connected.

Did I complain about business taking yet another hit? Yes I did because as has already been demonstrated, there are those who will shut down. Others will move to friendlier locales, and others will try to survive by passing on all the extra cost.

Did I show empathy for the less fortunate who the NDP profess to care about? Yes I did, because all the things that business does to address the added costs incurred, will affect those less fortunate ones in a negative manner, not a positive one.

I'm frankly baffled that you can't connect the dots yourself. :dash:
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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby Urban Cowboy » Feb 24th, 2018, 6:20 pm

Cactusflower wrote:So it's agreed then......there are only two sides in B.C. politics; the NDP, and the guys who 'detest' the NDP.


Actually I'd characterize it more as there being those who detest the NDP, and those who blindly support them, ignoring their faults as though they don't exist.
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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby flamingfingers » Feb 24th, 2018, 6:22 pm

Actually I'd characterize it more as there being those who detest the NDP, and who blindly support the BC Liberal Party, ignoring their faults as though they don't exist.
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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby flamingfingers » Feb 24th, 2018, 6:27 pm

But let's get back on topic and the magnificent error Todd Stone made in his statement in the legislature.

Shouldn't he have checked with his constituent to explore the constituents complaint BEFORE he brought it up in the Leg?

Or did he think that he could 'use' this to make an embarrassing issue to the sitting government and no one would notice?

I suspect the latter was the case... unfortunately he made ANOTHER wrong choice and ended up with a face full of bleep.
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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby mikest2 » Feb 24th, 2018, 6:39 pm

flamingfingers wrote:While I seldom pay much attention to anything the Fraser Institute says due to the fact they are a 'charitable' (LOL) right-wing 'think tank', this article seems to prove that 'workers will pay':

A key policy announcement in B.C.’s 2018 budget is the elimination of Medical Services Premiums (MSP) in 2020 and introduction of a new payroll tax—the employer health tax (EHT).

Some claim this tax swap will lift the financial burden off individual British Columbians and place it on businesses. In reality, however, the new EHT will ultimately be borne by workers through lower pay.

The EHT will be implemented in 2019, one year before MSP premiums are eliminated. It will apply to businesses with annual payrolls of more than $500,000 and has a maximum tax rate of 1.95 per cent. The rate is phased in as a business’ annual payroll increases. And the maximum rate is applied to a business with a payroll of $1.5 million or more.

Again, superficially, replacing the MSP with the EHT makes it seem like workers will generally pay less, since businesses will directly pay the EHT. But who really pays the cost of a payroll tax?

A payroll tax increases the total cost of labour. Businesses can respond by reducing employment, accepting lower profits, passing the costs to customers, or shifting the costs to workers by reducing their wages or benefits.

Research on who actually incurs the costs of payroll taxes has consistently found that workers—not businesses—bear significant part of the tax burden, even if businesses are the ones who directly make the tax payments to the government.


To understand the magnitude of the possible impact, a recent Fraser Institute study measured the impact of payroll tax hikes on worker wages. It found that a 1 per cent increase in the employer portion of payroll taxes is associated with a 0.03 per cent to 0.14 per cent reduction in the hourly wage rate. In dollar terms, this suggests that a one percentage-point increase in the un-weighted average combined employer-portion payroll tax rate (10.52 per cent) would translate into annual wages that are lower by between $137 and $605.

Bottom line: British Columbian workers will pay for the new employer health tax.


This confirms what I argued in posts that were made many months ago and was beaten upside and downside by elements who staunchly argued that the employers were simply being beneficent.

Nope, Nada, Not! There are no benevolent employers!!!!


BS,,,,,,,,,,,,,I work for an incredible company, the employees drive out the dead wood here. there is only one taxpayer, that's us,,...you and I. It's going to affect wages, a company has a certain percentage of gross with which to pay wages, if you increase the payroll burden (EI, WCB, RSP, etc) there is less left in that pot for the employee. That would be your reality check, but the NDPG do not have the mental wherewithal to understand the implications of their own policies, they paid no attention at all in the last 16 years of opposition, they have no clue, and that is very clear.
Once I thought I was wrong.....but I was mistaken...

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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby Urbane » Feb 24th, 2018, 6:46 pm

    flamingfingers wrote:Actually I'd characterize it more as there being those who detest the NDP, and who blindly support the BC Liberal Party, ignoring their faults as though they don't exist.
I gave credit to Horgan for going ahead with Site C, even though he gave the go-ahead mainly because of the billions already committed and/or spent, something he should have known long before his decision! But I did give him credit. I also gave credit to the NDP for the recent changes announced for ICBC. Meanwhile, you've never said a positive word about the Liberals and here we are with a thread started about Todd Stone. Unbelievable!! Anyway, back on topic: Todd Stone apparently misplaced a decimal point.
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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby Urban Cowboy » Feb 24th, 2018, 6:48 pm

flamingfingers wrote:Actually I'd characterize it more as there being those who detest the NDP, and who blindly support the BC Liberal Party, ignoring their faults as though they don't exist.


That's a blatant lie, and one I'm sure you are aware of.

I can think of quite a number of members, myself included, who indicated our dismay regarding some of the Liberal choices, not to mention, were it not for some of these concerned Liberal supporters taking protest action, by parking votes with the Green Party, to send the Liberals a message, you wouldn't have your precious NDP in power now.

One would do well to note also, that there are those who simply prefer the Liberal party of BC, because they view them as less destructive than the NDP, and not because they are Liberal through and through, something I'm sure the NDP faithful can't claim.

When it comes to blindly ignoring the faults of their party............... well................ sounds an awful lot like you are engaging in self analysis.
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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby flamingfingers » Feb 24th, 2018, 6:54 pm

mike wrote:

BS,,,,,,,,,,,,,I work for an incredible company, the employees drive out the dead wood here. there is only one taxpayer, that's us,,...you and I. It's going to affect wages, a company has a certain percentage of gross with which to pay wages, if you increase the payroll burden (EI, WCB, RSP, etc) there is less left in that pot for the employee. That would be your reality check, but the NDPG do not have the mental wherewithal to understand the implications of their own policies, they paid no attention at all in the last 16 years of opposition, they have no clue, and that is very clear.


I am so glad for you that you work for an 'incredible company' .

But have you really considered that their 'bottom line' or 'pot' as you describe it, depends on the wages they pay you?? The deductions (EI, WCB, RSP contributions & etc) are all calculated into your WAGE. If your incredible company did not have to pay these benefits, your wage would be greater. But if you had to pay these on your own, I doubt you would even consider it, so thankfully government sets these compulsory payments - for your own good and welfare.
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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby Urbane » Feb 24th, 2018, 6:54 pm

    flamingfingers wrote:Of course, that is what I have always said - there are no benevolent employers!! Workers ALWAYS pay.
Inaccurate and unfair. There are countless businesses out there that contribute to worthwhile causes on a regular basis. There are also countless businesses that go the extra mile to treat their employees well. Time for you to get away from that binary thinking and see the big picture!
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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby flamingfingers » Feb 24th, 2018, 7:04 pm

Urbane wrote:

Inaccurate and unfair. There are countless businesses out there that contribute to worthwhile causes on a regular basis. There are also countless businesses that go the extra mile to treat their employees well. Time for you to get away from that binary thinking and see the big picture!


Of course there are employers that go the extra mile to treat their employees well. There should be more and not necessarily in the $$ realm. However, the extra mile readily translates into better and more productivity, fewer demands for remuneration - which translates directly into a company's bottom line. - Capice?
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Re: Todd Stone gets it wrong - again!!

Postby Urbane » Feb 24th, 2018, 7:09 pm

Todd Stone isn't happy about this and he's not wrong to be unhappy (trying to stay on topic here!):

shane woodford

@WoodfordCHNL
Feb 23
More
New #BCGov health payroll tax will wipe out @Kamloops_SD73 savings on #MSP phase out and rack up an even bigger budget hit. http://goo.gl/uPZmpc #Kamloops #bcpoli #bced


It sounds like some unintended consequences of the new tax are coming to light!
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