Photo Radar "!101"

[Dizzy1]

For everyone that is OK with Photo Radar Please keep in mind the following scenarios:

1) Driving at 3 kph over the speed limit will result in a speeding ticket from an automated radar van
I've never heard of a ticket that wasn't 10 KPH or more over
It happens
2) Passing a vehicle for which a driver almost always has to speed a little will result in a speeding ticket
Only if you are going 10 or more over the limit.
It's at the discretion of the officer - just like the officer who ticked for going 1km/h over the limit in Alberta a while back. And of course, who doesn't remember the whole NDP "zero tolerance" campaign back in the 90s
3) During winter months, accidentally sliding through an intersection will result in a failure to stop ticket
Did you fail to stop ?
Red light cameras have been commonly turned off in poor weather conditions in the past - not sure if this is the case anymore but the pictures are reviewed before being sent out
8) Turning Left from a 2-way onto a 1-way is perfectly legal but a photo radar camera wont know the difference as its technically a red light
I strongly doubt that, are you "supposing" ?
Turning right on red lights has triggered cameras in the past as well - but tickets weren't issued IIRC

[Dizzy1]

Anyway, its been fun boys and girls, but this is an old topic, and we all still have our opinions and defended our points of views from the previous dozen threads and theres nothing wrong with that but it is getting tiresome to repeat the same arguments over and over. Even though I don't see eye to eye on this topic with Smurf, Ken7 and My5cents - I still respect their views and arguments but I think I'm gonna focus my disagreements on other topics

[Catsumi]

Please look at previous page in my last post there. Finally found the perfect meme to accompany my thoughts.

[jiva]

ICBC, the Government and just about everyone is missing the crucial, bottom line reason for high accident rates and insurance costs. PHOTO RADAR IS NOT THE ANSWER FOR NOR THE REASON FOR THE PROBLEM. The reason is...... there is virtually zero traffic enforcement on our roads and highways anymore. Note that about twice a year the media reports that a traffic blitz resulted in x number of charges in one day. What about all the other days??? How often do you see vehicles pulled over being ticketed any more?

Drive from Kelowna to Calgary and likely to never see a police car on the road. A police officer could sit at any stop sign in Kelowna a write tickets all day long. Few people obey them anymore. The normal traffic flow in a 50 km/hr zone is 10 to 20 km. above the posted speed limit.

Obvious violations like dark tinted driver windows go unchecked. I could go on an on.

No enforcement, no deterrent, more accidents, higher insurance rates. The RCMP can obviously not do the job any more. The siphon off the traffic resources to work on other duties due to manpower shortages. Perhaps a common sense approach would be to have By-Law Traffic officers dedicated to that area only. Less wages than a police officer and revenue would more than pay for their costs........and accident rates would drop.

Of course, the RCMP would balk at the idea as they would lose their traffic positions (that are not being utilized anyway), lose the funding they get for traffic enforcement (that they are not using), and lose positions that would negatively affect their rank structure.

To end, Kelowna reportedly has a full time motorcycle traffic enforcement position. How often have you seen it in action????

[Catsumi]

Nice post Jiva and I agree with you that enforcement just doesn't seem to be evident on our roads.

However, to obtain a drivers' license one must be in adulthood, brains functioning and cognizant of rules of driving safely.

So, as adults, why are we depending on the police to keep us in line? Why cannot we police ourselves and OUR OWN behaviour?

Adults know exactly what they are doing and should they want to see a decrease in maiming and deaths, and decrease in ICBC rates, they have that adult choice to just slow down.

[Smurf]

Dizzy1 wrote:

Anyway, its been fun boys and girls, but this is an old topic, and we all still have our opinions and defended our points of views from the previous dozen threads and theres nothing wrong with that but it is getting tiresome to repeat the same arguments over and over. Even though I don't see eye to eye on this topic with Smurf, Ken7 and My5cents - I still respect their views and arguments but I think I'm gonna focus my disagreements on other topics

"Even though I don't see eye to eye on this topic with" you (and others) Dizzy1, I also respect your right to your views.

Dizzy1 wrote:

I do break the law - I speed here and there - just like everyone else on the road and in these threads, yourself included. Its unfortunate that you feel that you are able to form an opinion on someones driving practices and behaviour on the road by refusing to stop and think about someones post and instead simply firing off a ridiculous assumption. But I'll give you a chance, please explain, with out making some crazy and wild assumption, to me what makes you think I am a "hazard on our roads" with the answer I gave you to your question ...

If the vehicle doesn't go back into the right lane, I'll give them a bit of time and distance and maybe flash my high beams as a friendly reminder. If they simply refuse to get into the right lane, or start to slow down more or do something stupid as a brake check - a quick shoulder and into the right lane I go, pass on the right with extra caution to make sure they don't change their mind and off I go minding my own business

I'm maintaining the big picture, understanding and processing whats going on why the slower vehicle is in the inappropriate lane. I give the other vehicle courtesy, time and space as I further process the situation. I then act accordingly and defensively to the conclusion I (as the driver) have determined is the best course of action is as far as I the driver am concerned.

Just in case you return I thought I would explain myself a bit further.

First ! "I speed here and there - just like everyone else on the road and in these threads, yourself included."

I won't deny I do find myself speeding on occasion but it is 100% by accident and I slow down immediately. I never speed deliberately even for a short distance. I try not to even even speed to pass. I always have enough time that I can wait for the proper opportunity. Life is to short as I have almost found out a couple of times and I do not want to rush things. It is one of the reasons I worked as a safety officer, on our fire rescue member and captain and took the training to be able to train others. I wanted to have the knowledge to look after myself, my fellow workers and most of all my family. I would never jeopardize that opinion by driving foolishly in any way.

As far as your habits I am sure you make every attempt to drive as safe as you can. It is not you I am worried about. It is the other inattentive drivers. Travellers that don't know the area. Inexperienced drivers that are not looking for the unexpected which actually could be you making illegal or at least wrong moves. The gawker's who are not paying attention to their driving but instead everything around them. Many other examples out there. You coming up on the right, tailgating or whatever might shock these people into doing something even you don't expect and due to your slightly excessive speed or whatever you might not be able to react. It just worries me that someone deliberately drives in a fashion that could unnecessarily endanger themselves or others.

I always say I don't want to see my worst enemy die or get injured if not for their sake for the sake of their friends and family. Two things I really hate are visiting hospitals and going to funerals especially for someone who died needlessly away too soon.
Am I a fanatic, probably.

Hope you see this Dizzy, have a good one.

[my5cents]

Nice post Jiva and I agree with you that enforcement just doesn't seem to be evident on our roads.

However, to obtain a drivers' license one must be in adulthood, brains functioning and cognizant of rules of driving safely.

So, as adults, why are we depending on the police to keep us in line? Why cannot we police ourselves and OUR OWN behaviour?

Adults know exactly what they are doing and should they want to see a decrease in maiming and deaths, and decrease in ICBC rates, they have that adult choice to just slow down.

You've missed a major key to the thought (or lack thereof) process of people who violate the law.

"They were just....."

Ask any traffic cop, very few violators take responsibility for their actions, basically stating "I was just..." and go on to justify their turn, the light, their speed.

I've been out quite a bit this week, day time (Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday) between Penticton and Kelowna, back and forth. The only cop I saw was a noon today, driving through downtown Summerland. In all the hours driving up and down 97, not one violator pulled over.

I don't think there would be an "OPERATIONAL NEED" (police buzz phrase for, we don't really know why, but we're not telling you anything" to keep secret the number of traffic tickets issued by each Okanagan detachment on a weekly basis (accompanied by the number of active members) plus the number of traffic tickets issued by the Traffic Section.

I know those stats exist and certainly wouldn't disrupt and secret police investigation.

[Catsumi]

Totally agree with you (and you with me) ^^^^

There is ALWAYS an excuse for driving over the posted speed limit, ALWAYS an excuse for disobeying rules of the road.

My point is WHY always fall back on lame excuses that endanger everyone else using the roadway?

WHY not just OBEY the traffic laws and posted signs. Aren't we all grownups when getting a DL?

WHAT is the matter with these speeders and blatant disregarders? They act like willful little kids.

Is this part of the Me First mentality and to hell with anyone or anything else (pedestrians, ducks crossing, quail, and heaven forbid, li'l skunk crossings?)

[casey60]

If everybody sticks to the rules of driving, Photo radar is then not an issue. If you speed you get nailed. If you do not speed you do not get nailed. Its that simple. My assumption, those that object to photo radar must feel it infringes on their rights to speed.

[my5cents]

If everybody sticks to the rules of driving, Photo radar is then not an issue. If you speed you get nailed. If you do not speed you do not get nailed. Its that simple. My assumption, those that object to photo radar must feel it infringes on their rights to speed.

You've missed the point, at least for most of us.

It's NOT that we disagree with people getting tickets. It's that, (at least I don't like) the format for photo radar, and photo red light cameras. The registered owner of the vehicle is assessed the fine. In fact the registered owner could be a company.

There is NO record of the violation on anyone's driving record/history, no follow-up.

The basic principle of ticketing for violations, is a multi step (or at least should be) system.

1st, a DRIVER is given a ticket for a violation. Being a first ticket, the only penalty for a minor violation is a monetary fine.

2nd, IF a DRIVER gets another ticket in quick succession they have shown a possible pattern of disobeying traffic laws, thus they are assess not only the fine, but an assessment from ICBC.

3rd, IF a DRIVER continues to get violation tickets his/her record will be flagged and they be subject to a driving suspensions.

Assessing a vehicle for a violation is very similar to a type of "road tax".

That is the problem.

[BGrigg07]

Please explain how it can be a cash grab if they are catching people breaking the law.

Anytime the only punishment is a fine, it is a cash grab. Plain and simple.

[alanjh595]

Please explain how it can be a cash grab if they are catching people breaking the law.

Anytime the only punishment is a fine, it is a cash grab. Plain and simple.

What other "punishment" would be your solution?

[Smurf]

So you feel that in every case, even minor infractions there should also be loss of licence for 90 days and car impounded or something to justify the ticket.

[alanjh595]

So you feel that in every case, even minor infractions there should also be loss of licence for 90 days and car impounded or something to justify the ticket.

I think that might be a little harsh, but maybe give the offender an option of cash or suspension of DL and plates. 1 day for every $10 owed. = $300 fine or 30 days prohibition.

[my5cents]

Anytime the only punishment is a fine, it is a cash grab. Plain and simple.

What other "punishment" would be your solution?

The principle is that each violation, in addition to the fine, comes with a form of "score keeping". In our case it's called "points", when one accumulates too many points, there is a review of the driver's privilege to drive. Seems to be an appropriate way to go.

With photo enforced traffic rules, there is absolutely no record of the violation on anyone's driving record, it is only monetary.