Air Canada restores service

[wisdom01]

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#220882

Scare Canada has to be that absolute worst airline in North America ... constantly screwing people up and thanking them for their patience. If there is an alternative I take it, even at increased cost.

[the truth]

they were awesome at one time , a loooooooooooong time ago

[Dizzy1]

they were awesome at one time , a loooooooooooong time ago

They still are, at least to those who spend a hell of a lot more time in planes than most

Anyone who's booked on a Rouge flight, spend the extra little bit and upgrade yourself to Premium - the hard product and service for that price is unbeatable

[Dizzy1]

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story-220882-6-.htm#220882

Scare Canada has to be that absolute worst airline in North America ... constantly screwing people up and thanking them for their patience. If there is an alternative I take it, even at increased cost.

How did they "screw" people around? They had a major computer issue, happens all the time to all airlines. Happened to Spirit just the other week. Southwest, regarded by so many as an awesome airline had 2 of them in a very short time. WestJet had one just a few months ago and another one a few months before that - I got caught in that one, fortunately I checked in with my phone the day before so I didn't have to stand in the line at the US departures in Vancouver that stretched from the kiosks all the way past the Spirit of Haida Gwaii sculpture - but the delays were lengthy. Welcome to the technological age

Myself, being both a current WestJet Gold Tier Member and Air Canada 75K Elite Member, both airlines are fantastic and have their pros and cons. On time performance between the two are almost identical at about 85%, buy with my personal experience, Air Canada has had much fewer delays or cancellations on my flights. On average, customer service is excellent with both airlines - I've had both pleasant and not so pleasant experiences with staff on both.

Spending as much time on board aircraft and at airports as I do, from the observations I've made (which I may add, are highly entertaining) - most of the time, poor customer service starts with the customer.

But, if you really want to see what poor and unprofessional service is like, I could recommend another airline to you - good luck even trying to contact them let alone trying to get a simple interaction with them. They currently have two websites, one being the old website and a new one, but the old one is still active (and your first Google hit) yet you can not manage your flights, check in or book a flight and there is no mention or link to the new site. Trying calling them via phone, if you're lucky, someone will pick up after 3 or 4 attempts of being on hold for a couple of hours (or until your patience is drained) each and every time.

[JagXKR]

Your experience with Air Chaos and Westjet aside, it seems more of a YLW thing. The cancellations at YYF are massively lopsided as AC/Jazz/Express (whatever they call themselves today) have many many more misses and cancellations than Encore. Not even close. And the main reason is the plane, Q400 vs Dash 8 300. The approach for the latter has a very high decision height whereas the Q400 can get down to as low as 500 feet before having to pull up. It's like 1000 feet more for the lowest decision height for the 300. Now that being said Air Chaos does have Q400's in their fleet and could get in more often but they choose not to. I've driven to the airport more times than I can count, picking up friends and neighbors that I just dropped off because Jazz chose to send a plane that is unequipped to do the job. In fact there was a miss a week ago friday evening. 50 people did not land and 50 people did not take off (assuming max capacity) and I would venture Air Chaos gave them squiddily dot. Had they sent a Q400 all would have gotten to their destinations as planned.

BTW if Encore does miss here and can get into YLW they will usually do that. Air Chaos on the other hand turns around and goes back to YVR.
Air Chaos "we're not happy 'til you're not happy".

[Catsumi]

Against my will and better judgment and under conditions I had no control over, I too am booked on Air Chaos (Scare Canada) an airline that does not have a good track record for customer treatment.

Dollars to doughnuts, something will be screwed up. If I am wrong I will return here and take it back.

[The Green Barbarian]

[Catsumi]

Hahaha, this is just what I expect...more to come after april 20.

Year of the Skunk!

[Dizzy1]

Your experience with Air Chaos and Westjet aside, it seems more of a YLW thing.

It is more than just a "YLW thing" but thanks for your silly assumption.

The cancellations at YYF are massively lopsided as AC/Jazz/Express (whatever they call themselves today) have many many more misses and cancellations than Encore.

Seeing that AC has 3 times more flights into YYF than WS does, thats really pretty straightforward isn't it? Never mind that 2 of AC's 3 daily flights come in at times when poor visibility is more likely to occur.

Not even close. And the main reason is the plane, Q400 vs Dash 8 300.

Please, do enlighten me on the performance, avionics package and procedure differences between WEN's Q400 vs AC 300s and AC Q400s and explain to me as why the main reason is the Q400 and not the 300.

The approach for the latter has a very high decision height whereas the Q400 can get down to as low as 500 feet before having to pull up. It's like 1000 feet more for the lowest decision height for the 300.

YYF is a non precision approach with a MDA of 2980ft ASL for Cat A, B, C aircraft and 3420ft ASL for Cat D aircraft. Both the 300 and Q400 fall into the Cat B and C categories depending of landing configuration. If anything, the Q400 would be slightly higher due to its weight and size (still not enough to put it into the Cat D) which means the Q400 would theoretically have a higher chance of the higher MDA - not the 300 as you claim.

Now that being said Air Chaos does have Q400's in their fleet and could get in more often but they choose not to.

Why would an airline send in an aircraft on flights that they feel doesn't require extra capacity? It would make more economic sense to dispatch those aircraft where they do require the extra capacity.

I've driven to the airport more times than I can count, picking up friends and neighbors that I just dropped off because Jazz chose to send a plane that is unequipped to do the job.

I've driven to an airport more times that I count where I personally flew on various legs, sectors through various airports and with various airlines. My frequent flier miles and experience trumps your picking up friends.

In fact there was a miss a week ago friday evening. 50 people did not land and 50 people did not take off (assuming max capacity) and I would venture Air Chaos gave them squiddily dot.

It depends on what fare they paid, wouldn't it? Those who purchased a Economy Tango (or now the Economy Basic) would get less then perks and privileges then those who paid for a Business Class Flex fare. Or do you expect that the passengers who paid the absolute minimum for their fare should qualify for the same perks as those who paid extra in advance for those extra perks? The same goes for any other airline - what you falsely believe you're entitled to and what entitlement you have agreed to are two completely different things.

If you're confused about what it is you are entitled to when you purchase a ticket, perhaps reading the terms and conditions and contract of carriage before you agree to them when you click on the "buy ticket" button. If you don't bother to read them, don't complain that you're getting "squiddily dot".

Had they sent a Q400 all would have gotten to their destinations as planned.

No, they wouldn't have.

BTW if Encore does miss here and can get into YLW they will usually do that.

WEN does not "usually go to YLW" in the case of a missed, don't be silly. If there is the off chance that they would do this, my suggestion to you is to go out and buy a lottery ticket because even though it does happen from time to time (and yes, AC has done this as well) its so rare its not even worth making it a discussion point.

99.9% of the time, the WEN flight will go back to YYC. They won't be sending the aircraft off to YLW just to deplane the passengers and sit there until the YYF pax are bused in - the aircraft is already dispatched to do another flight when it returns to YYC and that kind of delay would end up causing a snow ball effect for the aircraft and crews next scheduled flight never mind the missed connections the out going pax from YYF would endure.

The aircraft also won't be sent to YLW just to deplane some passengers and fly empty back to YYC - the flight will either be delayed, cancelled out of YYC or in the worst case scenario, depending if the pilots make the decision to give it a try to get into YYF, will fly a missed and return to YYC.

Air Chaos on the other hand turns around and goes back to YVR.

As does WEN, well to YYC that is.

[Dizzy1]

(Scare Canada) an airline that does not have a good track record for customer treatment.

Hmmm, yet Skytraxx rates both WS and AC with an average of 5/10 out of customer reviews.

I get it though, bashing Air Canada is fun, its cool, its hip - its a tradition. But, the funny thing is, that AC consistently rates quite high amongst frequent flyers - you know, those people who actually spend a lot of money on a lot of airlines and fly more in a year than people post here on internet forums.

But I know, those funny people who fly to Mexico once a year, looking for the cheapest flight they can - never reading the terms and conditions to anything before they agree to them, go on Facebook after their trip and tell everyone how AC is just the worst and their trip they had to endure was from hell because there was no TV on board - oh the horror!

Its interesting how AC consistently has a higher load factor than WS if Air Canada is so "terrible". It can't be because AC is cheaper, because everyone complains how "expensive" they are. It can't be because there's no competition, WS flies to pretty much every where that AC does domestically and through JV programs, everywhere in the US. AC has massive completion out of Canada to the rest of the world. But yet here they are, filling more seats then WS does - Facebook comments and arm chair flyers aside, they can't be that terrible if so many people choose to fly them.

[wisdom01]

Your experience with Air Chaos and Westjet aside, it seems more of a YLW thing.

It is more than just a "YLW thing" but thanks for your silly assumption.

The cancellations at YYF are massively lopsided as AC/Jazz/Express (whatever they call themselves today) have many many more misses and cancellations than Encore.

Seeing that AC has 3 times more flights into YYF than WS does, thats really pretty straightforward isn't it? Never mind that 2 of AC's 3 daily flights come in at times when poor visibility is more likely to occur.

Not even close. And the main reason is the plane, Q400 vs Dash 8 300.

Please, do enlighten me on the performance, avionics package and procedure differences between WEN's Q400 vs AC 300s and AC Q400s and explain to me as why the main reason is the Q400 and not the 300.

The approach for the latter has a very high decision height whereas the Q400 can get down to as low as 500 feet before having to pull up. It's like 1000 feet more for the lowest decision height for the 300.

YYF is a non precision approach with a MDA of 2980ft ASL for Cat A, B, C aircraft and 3420ft ASL for Cat D aircraft. Both the 300 and Q400 fall into the Cat B and C categories depending of landing configuration. If anything, the Q400 would be slightly higher due to its weight and size (still not enough to put it into the Cat D) which means the Q400 would theoretically have a higher chance of the higher MDA - not the 300 as you claim.

Now that being said Air Chaos does have Q400's in their fleet and could get in more often but they choose not to.

Why would an airline send in an aircraft on flights that they feel doesn't require extra capacity? It would make more economic sense to dispatch those aircraft where they do require the extra capacity.

I've driven to the airport more times than I can count, picking up friends and neighbors that I just dropped off because Jazz chose to send a plane that is unequipped to do the job.

I've driven to an airport more times that I count where I personally flew on various legs, sectors through various airports and with various airlines. My frequent flier miles and experience trumps your picking up friends.

In fact there was a miss a week ago friday evening. 50 people did not land and 50 people did not take off (assuming max capacity) and I would venture Air Chaos gave them squiddily dot.

It depends on what fare they paid, wouldn't it? Those who purchased a Economy Tango (or now the Economy Basic) would get less then perks and privileges then those who paid for a Business Class Flex fare. Or do you expect that the passengers who paid the absolute minimum for their fare should qualify for the same perks as those who paid extra in advance for those extra perks? The same goes for any other airline - what you falsely believe you're entitled to and what entitlement you have agreed to are two completely different things.

If you're confused about what it is you are entitled to when you purchase a ticket, perhaps reading the terms and conditions and contract of carriage before you agree to them when you click on the "buy ticket" button. If you don't bother to read them, don't complain that you're getting "squiddily dot".

Had they sent a Q400 all would have gotten to their destinations as planned.

No, they wouldn't have.

BTW if Encore does miss here and can get into YLW they will usually do that.

WEN does not "usually go to YLW" in the case of a missed, don't be silly. If there is the off chance that they would do this, my suggestion to you is to go out and buy a lottery ticket because even though it does happen from time to time (and yes, AC has done this as well) its so rare its not even worth making it a discussion point.

99.9% of the time, the WEN flight will go back to YYC. They won't be sending the aircraft off to YLW just to deplane the passengers and sit there until the YYF pax are bused in - the aircraft is already dispatched to do another flight when it returns to YYC and that kind of delay would end up causing a snow ball effect for the aircraft and crews next scheduled flight never mind the missed connections the out going pax from YYF would endure.

The aircraft also won't be sent to YLW just to deplane some passengers and fly empty back to YYC - the flight will either be delayed, cancelled out of YYC or in the worst case scenario, depending if the pilots make the decision to give it a try to get into YYF, will fly a missed and return to YYC.

Air Chaos on the other hand turns around and goes back to YVR.

As does WEN, well to YYC that is.

Wow, you must own shares ...

All I can say from my not as wonderful life as yours perspective is that I have had more cancellations and delays on AC than any other airline.

Luck of the draw? Maybe, but that's my experience and I'm sticking to it ...

[Dizzy1]

Wow, you must own shares ...

Why would you think I own shares?

All I can say from my not as wonderful life as yours perspective is that I have had more cancellations and delays on AC than any other airline.

AC on time performance was dismal about 3 years ago, but as any industry - the tables keep turning. Keep in mind, WS is going through a lot of changes now and they've been experiencing a lot of growing pains over the last couple of years (with more to come). WS isn't what they used to be, their business model has changed drastically and personally, I'm excited with their new direction despite the problems they've been enduring over the last couple of years.

Luck of the draw? Maybe, but that's my experience and I'm sticking to it ...

I'm sure luck (or lack of) has some influence on it. Some weeks, everything goes great, other weeks are a complete disaster LOL.

I flew with a major US carrier down to PHX a couple of weeks ago, and it was just a gong show - but it happens.

I was on a flight from YLW-YVR a couple of years back, Kelowna just had a major snow storm and they were struggling to get flights out, anyway, we ended up with quite a lengthy delay. The couple sitting next to me were on their way to Hawaii, they ended up missing their connecting flight and were rebooked for the next day. So the next day comes around, they get on their flight in YVR and the plane blew a tire on take off and the flight got cancelled, so they had to wait another day to get to Hawaii. So yeah, luck sticks its nasty head in and out every once in a while.

[Dizzy1]

Just for the heck of it, I did a quick search ...

Between January 01/18 and Feb 28/18, AC flights 8350, 8354 and 8356 - they averaged 85% on time performance, 3% excessively delayed and 0 cancelled flights and 0 diversions.

During the same dates, WEN 3280 had an on time performance of 90% but scored 5% in excessive delays and also 0 in cancelled flights or diversions.

[Dizzy1]

Recent computer outages ...

https://uk.reuters.com/article/spirit-a ... KL2N1QR25P
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... cal-outage
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... 224144fc79
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... on-failure
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/201 ... /97250834/
https://globalnews.ca/news/3830522/west ... it-outage/

[Dizzy1]

BTW if Encore does miss here and can get into YLW they will usually do that.

WEN does not "usually go to YLW" in the case of a missed, don't be silly. If there is the off chance that they would do this, my suggestion to you is to go out and buy a lottery ticket because even though it does happen from time to time (and yes, AC has done this as well) its so rare its not even worth making it a discussion point.

99.9% of the time, the WEN flight will go back to YYC. They won't be sending the aircraft off to YLW just to deplane the passengers and sit there until the YYF pax are bused in - the aircraft is already dispatched to do another flight when it returns to YYC and that kind of delay would end up causing a snow ball effect for the aircraft and crews next scheduled flight never mind the missed connections the out going pax from YYF would endure.

The aircraft also won't be sent to YLW just to deplane some passengers and fly empty back to YYC - the flight will either be delayed, cancelled out of YYC or in the worst case scenario, depending if the pilots make the decision to give it a try to get into YYF, will fly a missed and return to YYC.

Just to further expand on this, for tomorrow (Mar 14th), WEN 3280 is being operated by C-FENO - once it returns to YYC from YYF, it has a quick turnaround and is being dispatched to Regina, back to Calgary then off to Fort McMurray where it over nights and (coincidently) operates my flight to Calgary on the morning of the 15th.

It takes an hour and ten minutes to drive from YYF to YLW. Departure time from YYF to YYC is 315pm, which means boarding is set 40min prior so all passengers should be at the gate by 235pm and a bus would not be able to leave before then, so if all the passengers are accounted for, luggage on and the bus was able to make the trip in an hour and ten minutes, the bus would be at YLW 345pm, now the passengers have to get off the bus, grab their luggage, check in their luggage, go through security and board the plane - under absolute ideal circumstances, this will take at the very minimum 45 minutes until the door can be closed. Its now 430pm and that aircraft is scheduled to depart Calgary in 45 minutes. Scheduled flying time is one hour and 6 minutes, but we'll use one hour just to be generous and keep the math simple. So the plane will arrive in YYC at 1830 which is only 15 minutes past departure time (but now you have to deplane everyone, clean the plane, safety checks, refuel and re board which will take at least another 40 minutes till the doors closed, the plane is now 55 minutes late. Once it gets into Regina, it'll be further delayed and further delayed when it gets back to YYC.

Now, whats really going to happen is that the plane will go back to Calgary and the passengers will be rebooked on other flights, either on AC via YVR for the same day or on WS for the next day. They most likely will offer you a YLW option and maybe even give you a voucher for a cab, but I wouldn't count on that.