Re-elect NDP

[Verum]

But the point of this whole thread is the ndp didn't get elected. They did not get the most votes.

No single party got the most votes of a potential governing block since a coalition of parties is required to have a majority after the election of 2017. Also, having the most votes doesn't in any way correspond with getting into government. Even getting the most seats doesn't correspond with getting into government. One gets into government and stays there by having the support of the majority of seats.

They aligned with the greens to get 1 more than the liberals.

Actually, they got 330664 more votes than the BC Liberals and 1 more seat.

That is not elected.

Yes, it is, and at that point it would have taken a deal to form any stable government. Just because the NDP did a better job of this isn't doing anything wrong.

That is making a deal to grab power.

No, it's making a deal to form a government so that you can represent your constituents. It's their responsibility to do so. The BC Liberals tried to do so too and they were right to do so, even if they ultimately failed.

So if they didn't get enough votes to be in power they did not get elected.

Nope, that's not how the system works and it's never how it has worked.

There for they cannot be re-elected as they were not elected in the first place. That is the whole point.

And it's not how the system works and it's not how it was intended to work. It's functioning as designed and just because some people wish that the outcome was different doesn't change that. The NDP came to power through rather unusual, but perfectly valid and as intended to work circumstances.

[Urban Cowboy]

Sooooo Verum same question to you as I gave another earlier, given you're explanation of how the system works, "and should work" according to you, please explain why in PEI the PC's are the government, despite the Greens and Liberals combined having more seats?

The will of the people is what counts the most, not parties themselves concocting ways to usurp power, as happened here in BC.

I mean I know enough that our system is basically, a matter of he who gets the most seats forms government, after all the voters didn't vote for, nor were they given the option of a coalition. They voted based on what turned out to be blatant lies on the part of Horgan and Weaver, and these snake oil salesmen are now in power. By no stretch of the imagination was that what voters wanted.

Too many, myself included pegged Weaver as having ethics and my how wrong we were. Had we even the slightest inkling that he was even more of a snake than Horgan, there's no way Liberal supporters would have parked votes with the Green Party to send Clark a message. Basically our desire to do right, wound up biting us in the tush.

[Verum]

Sooooo Verum same question to you as I gave another earlier, given you're explanation of how the system works, "and should work" according to you, please explain why in PEI the PC's are the government, despite the Greens and Liberals combined having more seats?

They obviously have the confidence of the majority of seats. Quite simple really.

The will of the people is what counts the most, not parties themselves concocting ways to usurp power, as happened here in BC.

No, that's not what happened here at all. Firstly, there is absolutely no way of knowing what was the will of the people and at best we can only infer what it was, and that seems likely to me that it was not clearly for any single party to have complete control. No parties usurped power, they used the mechanisms of the system, as designed, to form a government to represent their constituents and the people of BC.

I mean I know enough that our system is basically, a matter of he who gets the most seats forms government, after all the voters didn't vote for, nor were they given the option of a coalition.

Yes, and they actually voted for MLAs, not specifically for parties. Hence why if an MLA crosses the floor, they do not give up their seat. Additionally, we don't have a coalition, but rather a confidence-and-supply setup. The MLAs did their best to represent their constituents, and that includes the BC Liberals too, even when they were trying to strike a "snake oil salesman" deal with the Greens.

They voted based on what turned out to be blatant lies on the part of Horgan and Weaver, and these snake oil salesmen are now in power. By no stretch of the imagination was that what voters wanted.

And I suppose you have a crystal ball and know exactly what the people wanted? Also, did you call the BC Liberals snake oil salesmen when they tried to come to a deal with the Greens? If not, that's just simple hypocrisy.

Too many, myself included pegged Weaver as having ethics and my how wrong we were. Had we even the slightest inkling that he was even more of a snake than Horgan, there's no way Liberal supporters would have parked votes with the Green Party to send Clark a message. Basically our desire to do right, wound up biting us in the tush.

Lol! Yes, that's why the BC Liberals lost, because of all of the voters who voted Green instead of BC Liberal! Surely that was the will of the people anyway.

[The Green Barbarian]

Lol! Yes, that's why the BC Liberals lost, because of all of the voters who voted Green instead of BC Liberal! Surely that was the will of the people anyway.

apologist crap to justify an unholy alliance between two loser parties. Just disgusting.

[Verum]

Lol! Yes, that's why the BC Liberals lost, because of all of the voters who voted Green instead of BC Liberal! Surely that was the will of the people anyway.

apologist *bleep* to justify an unholy alliance between two loser parties. Just disgusting.

Oh honey, if you're that easily offended, you may want to steer clear of political discussion.

[hobbyguy]

We will see in the next election.

The Green* party got a lot of protest votes from the Liberals last go round, because Andrew Weaver lied and said the Green* party would support whichever party got the most seats. Those will go away, because we now know for fact that a vote for the Green* party = a vote for the BC NDP.

What will be really interesting is the dynamic between the Green* party and the BC NDP.

The Nanaimo-Ladysmith federal result is a weak crossover, but that had been an NDP stronghold for a long time.

The BC NDP, with their theft of taxpayer $$$ to pay for their incompetently run and bankrupt excuse for a party, handed the Green* a huge wad of taxpayer cash. The BC Green* party has never been so flush with cash. Now add into that the BC NDP decision to not kill site C, and the decision to pursue LNG with even more "corporate welfare" than the Liberals.

The BC NDP plans are shredding, such as the failure to really do anything about "affordable housing" (average condo prices are actually up 4% since last year). The $10 daycare thingy is going nowhere fast. Gasoline prices are through the roof in NDG ridings. Portables at schools are not going away. Uber is but a distant dream. Ferry fares are up. BC Hydro rates are up. ICBC rates are skyrocketing. "Making life more affordable for British Columbians" is a farcical joke. The legal marijuana roll out is an exercise in incompetence.

That puts the BC Green* party in a great spot. The BC NDP have really annoyed most residents outside of the Vancouver-Victoria complex, and the V-V complex is seeing a lot of stuff that does not look good on the BC NDP. The BC Green* party can claim "purity" on a lot of those issues.

To me, it looks like the BC NDP have two problems. No growth in support outside of the V-V complex, and weakening support within the V-V complex that the Green* party will exploit.

Can the BC NDP turn that around? It will be hard as they will take shots from both sides, and I am sure that many LEAPers are ready to defect to the Green* party - especially given the credibility gains from PEI and Nanaimo-Ladysmith for the Green* party.

Darryl Plecas will be most likely be gonzo as well.....

[Country plough boy]

I like calling them green* that is good. Thank u hobby. They do deserve an astrix. If Barry Bonds gets an astrix. Those clowns do too

[Country plough boy]

https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/256040 ... -gas-probe

Lol. Good luck libs. So much for u being viable alternative. I would never vvote for a liberal anyways. But wow. Not even free market. Can not tell them apart from NDP Green*

[JagXKR]

They should be allowed intervener status. They need to see what exactly the commission finds so that there is no white washing of the results.
I wouldn't trust Horgan for anything and whose to say what exact mandate the BCUC will have. Horgan is a slimeball and this may just be a publicity stunt. The entire process needs oversight due to the very real possibility of the results being skewed by NDG interference or by a limited scope of what can be investigated placed upon the BCUC.
And remember that intervener status does not mean a veto or a vote. It just allows a 3rd party access to the information of the commission and the process.

[Urban Cowboy]

That is making a deal to grab power.

No, it's making a deal to form a government so that you can represent your constituents. It's their responsibility to do so. The BC Liberals tried to do so too and they were right to do so, even if they ultimately failed.

Actually actions have shown that it was a "deal" to jointly plunder the treasury, for the financial gain of their respective parties.

Both parties were financially strapped, the NDP basically bankrupt, so a plan was hatched to remedy that situation using our money.

Strange how if a business advertises something that isn't true, it's considered false pretenses and punishable by law, yet here we are blessed with lawmakers, who used false pretenses to get elected, then changed legislation so that they could steal our money, and their stupid supporters gripe about the Liberals. That's really rich!

Hey I was just thinking, I could use a few million extra bucks, so could we get Horgan to legally allow bank robbing for a week? After all it's no different than what he and Weaver did. They saw money, they wanted money, so they took the money.

I promise I'll spend it on something useful, like I was just thinking I might go to England and buy myself a hat.

[hobbyguy]

Verum - time you realized that the BC NDP are just incompetent snollygosters.

The people of BC did NOT elect an NDP government. The BC NDP usurped power through a crooked backroom deal.

The Green* party lied and said they would support the party with the most seats. That got them a bunch of Liberal votes that were protest votes wanting the Liberals to re-balance a bit to the left.

The BC NDP flat out lied to troll for all kinds of votes.

The BC NDP are so incompetent that their own party was bankrupt. IF you can't manage your own party's finances, what the heck makes you think that you can manage the complex finances and economy of BC?

One the BC NDP key promises was to "get big money out of politics". That is the very first one they broke, the BC NDP institutionalized big money in politics by stealing taxpayer's $$$. Flat out theft by "sticky fingers" Horgan (the unelected "leader" of the doofus BC NDP/LEAP).

And so it went, broken lie of a promise after broken lie of a promise from site C to LNG to rebuilding the forest industry to abandoning revenue neutrality in the jacked up carbon tax (the carbon tax is now MORE than the costs of gas on my home heating bill!) to jacking up ICBC rates, ferry fares, BC Hydro rates.

The BC NDP are an illegitimate government and the most useless bunch of usurpers ever.

[Verum]

Verum - time you realized that the BC NDP are just incompetent snollygosters.

I have known this for some time. They are only a bit better than the BC Liberals.

The people of BC did NOT elect an NDP government. The BC NDP usurped power through a crooked backroom deal.

People have never elected the government directly, and indirectly they did elect the NDP government. You can complain about it all you like, but they are there, in power, legally.

The Green* party lied and said they would support the party with the most seats. That got them a bunch of Liberal votes that were protest votes wanting the Liberals to re-balance a bit to the left.

Even if that is true, which I don't think it is, the influence of such votes was negligible. It certainly didn't swing the result away from their being a BC Liberal majority.

The BC NDP flat out lied to troll for all kinds of votes.

Yep, they learned from the BC Liberals that that is what was needed.

The BC NDP are so incompetent that their own party was bankrupt. IF you can't manage your own party's finances, what the heck makes you think that you can manage the complex finances and economy of BC?

Yes, but again, they could hardly have done a worse job than the previous lot, which they haven't.

One the BC NDP key promises was to "get big money out of politics". That is the very first one they broke, the BC NDP institutionalized big money in politics by stealing taxpayer's $$$. Flat out theft by "sticky fingers" Horgan (the unelected "leader" of the doofus BC NDP/LEAP).

Lol! That's your opinion. Also, Horgan was elected as an MLA, just as much as any premier of BC and while he stood unopposed to become leader of the BC NDP, that's hardly his fault, nor is it a character flaw of his. Trying to make it out as such is just partisanship.

And so it went, broken lie of a promise after broken lie of a promise from site C to LNG to rebuilding the forest industry to abandoning revenue neutrality in the jacked up carbon tax (the carbon tax is now MORE than the costs of gas on my home heating bill!) to jacking up ICBC rates, ferry fares, BC Hydro rates.

The BC NDP are an illegitimate government and the most useless bunch of usurpers ever.

So take a court case against them, I'm sure the BC Liberals would have if they thought that they could win. Sorry, but you're simply wrong, very wrong. They are as legitimate a government as BC has ever had.

It really does seem as if lots of people don't know how elections, our government and politics work, or they have a serious dose of sour grapes.

[Urban Cowboy]

It really does seem as if lots of people don't know how elections, our government and politics work, or they have a serious dose of sour grapes.

Oh I'm willing to wager a goodly sum, that were the shoe on the other foot, and the NDP had actually won the most seats in the election, yet did not get to govern, you and your like minded cohorts would be on here endlessly crying the blues.

It's the hypocrisy, and double standards, NDP supporters embrace that are the most annoying of all.

I can just picture the length of the thread, begun by the resident Christy Clark stalker probably, if the Liberals had promised pre election, to never use our tax dollars to fund political parties, then after her precious NDP won the election by two seats, found the Liberals and Greens had negotiated a plan to take control of government.

Then as a first order of business they change the rules to give the Greens access to government funding, despite not meeting the current MLA number requirement, then for icing on the cake, both parties help themselves to funding as they couldn't do it on their own in a relevant fashion.

The outrage and crying would be endless, literally endless, and the nastiness unimaginable.

Then to push her over the edge, it's revealed that one of the NDP members agreed to be speaker of the house.

At this stage she'd likely jump into her vehicle, and head over to the turncoats house to share a piece of her mind.

Pity it hasn't turned out that way, as the double standard would be extremely entertaining to observe.

[GordonH]

The people of BC did NOT elect an NDP government. The BC NDP usurped power through a crooked backroom deal.

People have never elected the government directly, and indirectly they did elect the NDP government. You can complain about it all you like, but they are there, in power, legally.

Voters choose 1 of candidates on the ballot which is next to Political Party they are running for (for most part each candidate has a leader, with the exception of independents & some of small fringe parties).
The candidate with the most ballots win to be that ridings MLA... Political party with the most MLA's wins the election & their leader becomes premier of the province (either with a majority or minority).

In the case of minority a motion of non-confidence can happen, once past this is were the Lieutenant Governor comes in & will either call for general election or hands power over to the coalition/opposition plus 3rd party (in BC case NDP with 41 MLA's + Green Party with 3 MLA's). In BC to form a majority government there needs to be at least 44 MLA's.

So John Horgan got the premiership via the Lieutenant Governor, and not by the voters of BC.

[Verum]

It really does seem as if lots of people don't know how elections, our government and politics work, or they have a serious dose of sour grapes.

Oh I'm willing to wager a goodly sum, that were the shoe on the other foot, and the NDP had actually won the most seats in the election, yet did not get to govern, you and your like minded cohorts would be on here endlessly crying the blues.

How I wish I could take you up on this bet. I'm not a fan of the BC NDP at all, and certainly would never whine about confidence-and-supply or coalition arrangements since I actually think they result in better governance than straight majorities. I would sooner have had the BC Liberals in, in a coalition arrangement with the Greens than the BC NDP with a massive majority.

It's the hypocrisy, and double standards, NDP supporters embrace that are the most annoying of all.

Complaining about it with the NDP and ignoring it in the BC Liberals is hypocrisy too.

I can just picture the length of the thread, begun by the resident Christy Clark stalker probably, if the Liberals had promised pre election, to never use our tax dollars to fund political parties, then after her precious NDP won the election by two seats, found the Liberals and Greens had negotiated a plan to take control of government.

Calling it "winning the election" is kind of a misleading way to put it. The party which gets to govern should be seen as the one who won the election, since that's the actual goal, not to get the largest number of seats of any party. Also, the threads on this forum whining incessantly about the NDP, Horgan, Weaver, etc. are far longer and more numerous than the ones we used to have about Clark et al.

Then as a first order of business they change the rules to give the Greens access to government funding, despite not meeting the current MLA number requirement, then for icing on the cake, both parties help themselves to funding as they couldn't do it on their own in a relevant fashion.

Shock, horror, politicians engaged in politics to preserve their own parties. Whatever next? Will they pay off a spineless MLA to give up his seat for the benefit of the party?

The outrage and crying would be endless, literally endless, and the nastiness unimaginable.

It certainly seems to be so as is.

Then to push her over the edge, it's revealed that one of the NDP members agreed to be speaker of the house.

So, an MLA decided to do the only thing which would avoid another provincial election? An MLA who has since exposed massive corruption which had taken place under for many years and was ongoing. I would actually support an NDP MLA doing this if it was what was needed.

Pity it hasn't turned out that way, as the double standard would be extremely entertaining to observe.

It certainly is. People pretending that our government is illegitimate because they don't understand how the system works, or more likely, don't want to understand how the system works. People who accuse the NDP of engaging in backroom deals when they never did so when the BC Liberals did the same. It would be comical if it wasn't so tragic.

The system is broken, but not because it put someone you don't like into power, or because it didn't put your team into power.