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Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby waterwings » Jan 7th, 2013, 5:10 pm

I believe the first step that should be taken by the federal government is to develop an edcuational course that all chiefs, and counsellors must take before they are sworn in. The course: FORGIVENESS AND RECONICILATION!

First Nations/Aboringinals need to understand that ALL disputes have two sides and in order to move foreward both sides must FORGIVE AND RECONCILE.

Heavens to Betsy......some common sense may come to the forefront on how to move forward.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby steven lloyd » Jan 7th, 2013, 5:11 pm

removed off topic - Jennylives
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby jennylives » Jan 7th, 2013, 5:14 pm

Off topic remarks, personal attacks and focusing on sources instead of content will be promptly removed. Let's keep this discussion on track please.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby grammafreddy » Jan 7th, 2013, 5:22 pm

Ken7 wrote:
Attawapiskat gets about $17-million a year from Ottawa.




Is that "gets" or "is allocated"?

There's a difference.

The money to finish off those homes (the 22 modulars) is being held back by the government because the band couldn't wait for the government to push their papers around their desks and get them hooked up to services and finish the interiors of the houses. They started the work on them and when they asked for the money that was allocated for that, the government told them they couldn't have it because they did "work that was not approved in advance" so all work on getting those houses finished ground to a halt.

Would you have preferred the natives had waited for the slow wheels of government to turn out an approval before the houses got finished? Or should they have taken the initiative and tried to help themselves like they did - and then have the government tell them they should not have been so independent and they should have waited and still had unfinished homes and now can't have the funding that was ear-marked for those houses?
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby grammafreddy » Jan 7th, 2013, 5:44 pm

waterwings wrote:I believe the first step that should be taken by the federal government is to develop an edcuational course that all chiefs, and counsellors must take before they are sworn in. The course: FORGIVENESS AND RECONICILATION!

First Nations/Aboringinals need to understand that ALL disputes have two sides and in order to move foreward both sides must FORGIVE AND RECONCILE.

Heavens to Betsy......some common sense may come to the forefront on how to move forward.


Who will write this educational course that all chiefs and councillors must take before they are sworn in? The federal government lackeys? Can you honestly see that anything even remotely fair or just will be the end result of that?

There is a long, long history of the native people trusting the governments they have to deal with - and an equally long, long history of those same governments abusing and lying to and cheating and breaking trust with the native people. Is it any wonder they do not trust governments now? It does not surprise me. The governments continue to break trust, break their word and break their agreements with the natives. They make things difficult to comply with by making too much paperwork or impossible deadlines and then they penalize them when they can't comply. Then they call the natives incompetent and try to put government co-managers in place.

However, even these co-managers screw up, I guess, because the audit that was just released was for a time period when the government AND the natives were managing the funding jointly and still the auditors couldn't account for a lot of the money. So what does that say about the government's half of the co-management? Incompetent? Why is that person not under the microscope for mismanagement of the funds? Why is the government covering up that half of this story and only exposing the native half of the mismanagement?
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Libelle » Jan 7th, 2013, 5:53 pm

GF: if the govt tells the First Nations how to spend their (tax payer) money then why won't MS.Spence disclose her books to the govt? So the govt said that it was ok to spend $96,000 on a ice resurfacer in the mist of a housing crisis?
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Ken7 » Jan 7th, 2013, 5:58 pm

grammafreddy"



Is that "gets" or "is allocated"?

There's a difference.

The money to finish off those homes (the 22 modulars) is being held back by the government because the band couldn't wait for the government to push their papers around their desks and get them hooked up to services and finish the interiors of the houses. They started the work on them and when they asked for the money that was allocated for that, the government told them they couldn't have it because they did "work that was not approved in advance" so all work on getting those houses finished ground to a halt.

Would you have preferred the natives had waited for the slow wheels of government to turn out an approval before the houses got finished? Or should they have taken the initiative and tried to help themselves like they did - and then have the government tell them they should not have been so independent and they should have waited and still had unfinished homes and now can't have the funding that was ear-marked for those houses?



It was a quote from the article a page back that appears to be a news article.

If I recall correctly, the homes did not get all delivered to the reserve, as they were put on hold. Why, the foundations had not been prepared which I’d suspect was the bands obligation, but I don’t know for sure as it was a while ago I read the article.

I think if the truth was known about this reserve and others people would get angry! The people I speak of being angry are the Taxpayers of this country.

I can personally attest to miss spending on a reserve my x-wife was is a member of. Sadly the Natives do not honor a Treaty and this reserve might be another example. Not everyone there is poor, but they would like you and I to believe that the government has failed, have they really or has this band?

Don't get me wrong, our Government is not clean they should be settling these Treaties in my opinion and then we all are Canadian Tax payers.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby grammafreddy » Jan 7th, 2013, 6:28 pm

Libelle wrote:GF: if the govt tells the First Nations how to spend their (tax payer) money then why won't MS.Spence disclose her books to the govt? So the govt said that it was ok to spend $96,000 on a ice resurfacer in the mist of a housing crisis?


Noooooooooooooooo, Libelle. The government did not pay for that ice resurfacer.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=48422&start=120#p1404651

She did disclose her books to the government - and the government did audit them. And the years the government wanted to audit were when the government was micro-managing the band with a co-management arrangement - and overseer put into place by the government. And that overseer co-manager didn't make their books balance, either - too many entries not accounted for. So does that say the government's co-manager was also faulty and guilty of everything the media is saying the band is guilty of? I doubt I would be trusting Mr Harper too much right about now after all the spins he has put on this. For starters, the $90M he said they got was not just for one year - it was for the whole time that he has been prime minister - what? 5 years or more?

LOL - How many posters here are soooo anti-Harper/Conservatives ... and yet they think the natives should trust him and his government? That's actually quite funny, isn't it?
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby kibbs » Jan 7th, 2013, 6:36 pm

:ohmygod: three pages more of we suck they suck,the answer is in mutual respect ,and understanding.we must also forgive ourselves .the real important message is coming from the idle no more movement.i get the feeling chief atleo is show boating and selling out to harper. chief spence is a red herring and a red flag. :spinball:
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby grammafreddy » Jan 7th, 2013, 6:37 pm

grammafreddy"
Is that "gets" or "is allocated"?

There's a difference.

The money to finish off those homes (the 22 modulars) is being held back by the government because the band couldn't wait for the government to push their papers around their desks and get them hooked up to services and finish the interiors of the houses. They started the work on them and when they asked for the money that was allocated for that, the government told them they couldn't have it because they did "work that was not approved in advance" so all work on getting those houses finished ground to a halt.

Would you have preferred the natives had waited for the slow wheels of government to turn out an approval before the houses got finished? Or should they have taken the initiative and tried to help themselves like they did - and then have the government tell them they should not have been so independent and they should have waited and still had unfinished homes and now can't have the funding that was ear-marked for those houses?


Ken7 wrote:It was a quote from the article a page back that appears to be a news article.

If I recall correctly, the homes did not get all delivered to the reserve, as they were put on hold. Why, the foundations had not been prepared which I’d suspect was the bands obligation, but I don’t know for sure as it was a while ago I read the article.

I think if the truth was known about this reserve and others people would get angry! The people I speak of being angry are the Taxpayers of this country.

I can personally attest to miss spending on a reserve my x-wife was is a member of. Sadly the Natives do not honor a Treaty and this reserve might be another example. Not everyone there is poor, but they would like you and I to believe that the government has failed, have they really or has this band?

Don't get me wrong, our Government is not clean they should be settling these Treaties in my opinion and then we all are Canadian Tax payers.


There's a video at the link I posted a page or two back that shows the homes and talks about why they are not finished. Here is what it shows of the interior of one and how it was left unfinished:

unfinished-modular.jpg


If you want to see more then have a look at the video.

I kinda think the natives might not be the only ones who may not be honouring the Treaties. Governments aren't doing such a swell job, either.

Which nation does your ex belong to?
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby waterwings » Jan 7th, 2013, 6:46 pm

Who will write this educational course that all chiefs and councillors must take before they are sworn in? The federal government lackeys? Can you honestly see that anything even remotely fair or just will be the end result of that?

Exactly the same way the paper was written after first nations and aboriginals had to be heard and speak openly about the past - It should be written after Canadian taxpayers are able to (across the whole of Canada) speak and be heard openly on they feel about the amount of monies being spent on councils and chiefs salariies, wages, benefits on a reserve with a count of for example 2000 people.

There are aways 2 sides to every story.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby kibbs » Jan 7th, 2013, 6:49 pm

as far a the rink goes ill bet that rink is the most important thing to that community has..school can be taught by parents .this is a communal society you got to get your brain around that .they don't need to learn jeopardy questions they need to learn how to survive up north with a white world closing in .what the heck good is a rink without a Zamboni
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Urbane » Jan 7th, 2013, 6:50 pm

Too late now but the real answer was in the 1969 White Paper put out by the Trudeau government. Jean Chretien, then Indian Affairs Minister, proposed dissolving the bands and integrating Natives into society. The Native leaders all cried foul and suggested that dissolving the bands would be tantamount to "cultural genocide." But if you look at the reservation system over the years the only people who have really benefitted are the Native leaders. So we are where we are and that's too bad. I do know this: Money is not the answer.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Libelle » Jan 7th, 2013, 7:08 pm

kibbs wrote::ohmygod: three pages more of we suck they suck,the answer is in mutual respect ,and understanding.we must also forgive ourselves .the real important message is coming from the idle no more movement.i get the feeling chief atleo is show boating and selling out to harper. chief spence is a red herring and a red flag. :spinball:


Forgive ourselves for what?
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby grammafreddy » Jan 7th, 2013, 7:08 pm

waterwings wrote:Exactly the same way the paper was written after first nations and aboriginals had to be heard and speak openly about the past - It should be written after Canadian taxpayers are able to (across the whole of Canada) speak and be heard openly on they feel about the amount of monies being spent on councils and chiefs salariies, wages, benefits on a reserve with a count of for example 2000 people.

There are aways 2 sides to every story.


I agree - there's usually three sides, though, not two.

Do you think this fiscal management plan should only be limited to what the feds are spending on natives? If the objective is full integration with other Canadians and coming to some fair and balanced funding system, perhaps all Canadians should be prepared to receive exactly what they think the natives should get? If the other Canadians don't think hockey rinks should be funded for natives, then they should expect they wouldn't be funded for non-natives. If they think they should receive paid child care, then they should expect natives to also get paid child care. If they want the natives to not be able to collect welfare, then the non-natives should also not be able to collect welfare. If they want to have subsidized anything, then the natives should also get subsidized anything, too. Right?

If wages and benefits are on the table, then what is deemed fair for one should apply to the other, too. Right?
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