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Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby grammafreddy » Jan 10th, 2013, 2:47 pm

Yeah, I know - the atrocities just keep adding up, don't they? Government after government over all this time just kept it up without dealing with it openly and fairly. From killing off the buffalo, moving the people to reserves, taking their children away from them, and on and on ... the government has controlled every aspect of their lives for generations and blackmailed the people into compliance. Even with all this "free money", the government continues to control them in bureaucratic ways when many of the reserves are unable to comply with the onerous demands of government paperwork and ever-changing rules and policies.

It is time to move on - but until government actually allows it - in open and honest dialogue with the FN people AND with the people of Canada, it isn't going to happen.

It isn't going to happen while there is corruption on both sides, either. The government bureaucrats have built their empires and they probably won't let them go easily and will fight to keep them. They are the ones advising the politicians in Ottawa. The AFN and their member chiefs have done the same on many of the reserves.

So many of today's natives are people "in between" - they aren't the old Indians of the past and they don't fit the mold of standard Canadians, either. There is a lot of racial prejudice against them.

I don't have the answers but I do know we can't continue the path of destruction we have been on - and neither can they. Maybe its time to talk to the people and see what they want for their futures - without their chiefs and band councilors present. Maybe its time to honour those treaties.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Rwede » Jan 10th, 2013, 3:05 pm

"Maybe its time to honour those treaties."


But, those treaties are from the distant past too. Times have changed immensely since the 1700s and 1800s. Well-meaning folks signed those treaties, but they have little relevance in today's society. Clinging to rationales that were present in 1767 and trying to justify their details is costly and a waste of time. And I believe it's keeping both Indians and the rest of us from moving on to solutions that are relevant and helpful in today's world.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby waterwings » Jan 10th, 2013, 3:28 pm

But, those treaties are from the distant past too. Times have changed immensely since the 1700s and 1800s. Well-meaning folks signed those treaties, but they have little relevance in today's society. Clinging to rationales that were present in 1767 and trying to justify their details is costly and a waste of time. And I believe it's keeping both Indians and the rest of us from moving on to solutions that are relevant and helpful in today's world.

BRAVO!!!!!!! WELL SAID!!!!!!!
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Ken7 » Jan 10th, 2013, 4:00 pm

cutter7 wrote:Heres another look at the numbers.
http://www.oktlaw.com/blog/taking-a-sec ... t-numbers/






Interesting article for sure. However, when you see the books and there's 50 K here and there that is not accountable for or no vender come now, you don't have to be a seasoned accountant to figure it something is not right.

Is it outright theft or is it fraud?
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby grammafreddy » Jan 10th, 2013, 4:02 pm

Rwede wrote:"Maybe its time to honour those treaties."


But, those treaties are from the distant past too. Times have changed immensely since the 1700s and 1800s. Well-meaning folks signed those treaties, but they have little relevance in today's society. Clinging to rationales that were present in 1767 and trying to justify their details is costly and a waste of time. And I believe it's keeping both Indians and the rest of us from moving on to solutions that are relevant and helpful in today's world.


Some of those treaties are a lot newer than that.

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/ ... n-treaties

I bet if you were a FN person, you might not think the same. You might think the government/crown should uphold their end of the legally binding agreements. It's very easy to blow it off when you are white and in control of these people, eh?
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby grammafreddy » Jan 10th, 2013, 4:08 pm

cutter7 wrote:Heres another look at the numbers.
http://www.oktlaw.com/blog/taking-a-sec ... t-numbers/

Ken7 wrote:Interesting article for sure. However, when you see the books and there's 50 K here and there that is not accountable for or no vender come now, you don't have to be a seasoned accountant to figure it something is not right.

Is it outright theft or is it fraud?


Could be neither ... could be someone just put an invoice in their pocket and forgot about it then it went through the wash.

It seems almost every purchase there goes through the community's store - Northern something. Even the ice machine was bought/brought in through them. Maybe the store needs their books looked at, too? I am not sure, but I think it is a private contractor that operates in northern FN communities, not just this one.

Edited to add: http://www.northernstores.ca/store_locator.htm
Last edited by grammafreddy on Jan 10th, 2013, 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Ken7 » Jan 10th, 2013, 4:12 pm

grammafreddy


- Consultants (including lawyers and accountants) receive 1,500 contracts per year from AANDC, worth about $125 million. (This does not include fees that First Nations pay directly using sources other than AANDC funding). (Source: Toronto Star)


When Chief Spence refused the government's third party manager, that manager was going to cost her band $140,000 per day - from the band's budget.


Did I miss something, is that per day or per YEAR?
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby grammafreddy » Jan 10th, 2013, 4:20 pm

grammafreddy


When Chief Spence refused the government's third party manager, that manager was going to cost her band $140,000 per day - from the band's budget.

Ken7 wrote:Did I miss something, is that per day or per YEAR?


I forgot - I was going to check that . Sorry. Its not per day. But I don't think it is per year, either. Hell, the $140,000 may even be wrong. :127:
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Ken7 » Jan 10th, 2013, 4:38 pm

"grammafreddy"


Ken-Did I miss something, is that per day or per YEAR?

I forgot - I was going to check that . Sorry. Its not per day. But I don't think it is per year, either. Hell, the $140,000 may even be wrong.



I do read what you write and doing the math on a 200 day work year that is about $28,000,000.00.

I'd find my second career real fast if that was the case.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby grammafreddy » Jan 10th, 2013, 4:40 pm

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/12/08/spen ... the-money/

The third-party auditor will cost Attawapiskat about $1,300 per day.

Aboriginal Affairs officials told The Canadian Press they have an agreement to pay Jacques Marion of BDO Canada LLP a total of $180,000 to look after the reserve’s accounts from now until June 30. The money comes from the Attawapiskat First Nation’s budget. That rate over the course of a year would run up to $300,000 and easily pay for at least one nice, solid house, notes Mushkegowuk Grand Chief Stan Louttit.

Conveying a request from the community, the NDP says the military should be used to help get supplies to Attawapiskat. John Duncan is raising the possibility of evacuating those who do not have adequate housing.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby grammafreddy » Jan 10th, 2013, 4:42 pm

Ken7 wrote:
I do read what you write and doing the math on a 200 day work year that is about $28,000,000.00.

I'd find my second career real fast if that was the case.


Yeah, me too :D

However ........ even $300,000 a year is a nice figure.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Veovis » Jan 10th, 2013, 4:50 pm

Which is funny since that's what the chiefs boyfriend takes, and he didn't seem to bother doing the books, but shame on a firm that would actually do something for charging the same.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Ken7 » Jan 10th, 2013, 5:05 pm

Veovis wrote:Which is funny since that's what the chiefs boyfriend takes, and he didn't seem to bother doing the books, but shame on a firm that would actually do something for charging the same.



Chief Spence, "It's just a coincidence....trust me.." :200:


In saying that all joking aside. I'm betting the Band does not pay cash to their so call contractors, therefore there has to be a paper trail.

GF, you can't be the naive to think if they spent $90,000.00 and someone audited your books and they came across that there wouldn't be a cheque, possibly a crumpled up work order or something?

Even in a organization of that size wouldn't be every other day 90K walked out the door. So I have call BS on the expenditures, not knowing who the contractor was. By the look of the reserve it isn't like there were too many projects going on that Spence couldn't recall who the money went too.

Let's think just for a moment on that point before responding.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby wolfen_one » Jan 10th, 2013, 5:21 pm

Quote from Gramma........I bet if you were a FN person, you might not think the same. You might think the government/crown should uphold their end of the legally binding agreements. It's very easy to blow it off when you are white and in control of these people, eh?[/quote]



How do you know who is white or not on this or any other forum? I have friends and family members who are First Nations. Some have status,some live on reserves, some do not. Not all "white" people are against native people. Colour should mean nothing when YOU are talking equality.

One more tidbit for you Granny.......I have never,am not,or will ever be "in control of these people"
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Veovis » Jan 10th, 2013, 5:22 pm

The way standard audits work though is that if the auditor comes across something that doesn't have ready back up or answers they make a note and then ask the appropriate people (controller/CEO/AP Clerk/financial officer) to answer those questions, and record the responses and answers.

When I get my audit done each year and the auditor always provides a list of queries they have, and then I answer them.

These auditors received the reply "I can't recall" for inquiries of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

You are correct that there must be some form of paper trail Ken, and you never know, it all may end up being legit, I doubt it, but until it is investigated (and it should be) we won't actually know.
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