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Idle No More co-founder uneasy with Chief Spence

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Idle No More co-founder uneasy with Chief Spence

Postby oneh2obabe » Jan 15th, 2013, 4:48 am

First Nations and hunger-striking chief don't speak for movement, co-founder says
Posted: Jan 14, 2013 6:52 PM CST
Last Updated: Jan 14, 2013 9:39 PM CST

One of the originators of the Idle No More movement says she is concerned with how Attawapiskat Chief Theresa Spence has taken a leadership role in the campaign.

"Idle No More is the face of all indigenous people, all grassroots people," Sylvia McAdam said Monday, following a forum with university students in Regina. "It's not just the face of one. We hardly have any communications with Chief Spence."

Spence has been limiting her food intake since Dec. 10, consuming only fish broth, water and medicinal tea in an effort to force a meeting attended by both Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Gov. Gen. David Johnston to address First Nations issues.

The Idle No More campaign originated on social media, first on Facebook and later with Twitter, when Sylvia McAdam, Nina Wilson, Sheelah Mclean and Jessica Gordon expressed concern about provisions of Bill C-45, which reduce the number of federally protected waterways.

"We're going to get off the couch and we're not going to be idle any more," McAdam said about the nascent idea behind the movement. "And we said, 'Why don't we just call it Idle No More?' And it just stuck."

At first, the movement engaged people in an online discussion. It gained wider attention in late November and early December with what were called flash mob-style round dances at shopping malls.

McAdam said recent coverage of the movement has focused on Spence and other First Nations chiefs, but insists they do not speak for the movement.

She said even the originators are not the official voice of the campaign.

"The founders have been looked toward for guidance and discussions, if that can be defined as leadership," she said.

McAdam also questioned the actions of some First Nations planning blockades at border crossings and rail lines.

"I think those portray a message of aggressiveness," McAdam said. "That's not peaceful.

"We have to be careful with Idle No More that we don't go into areas where we're saying, 'Save the gophers,'" she added. "There has to be a purpose behind it."

She said she is worried about the movement's core message, about protecting land and water in Canada and promoting indigenous sovereignty.

But even McAdam was not precise when it came to defining sovereignty.

"We're still talking about that," she said. "We're still defining it as we go."

McAdam was also adamant that neither the Assembly of First Nations, nor individual chiefs, are in charge of the Idle No More movement.

"History has shown that when movements like this happen, if leadership takes over it kills the movement," she said.

McAdam said the movement is keen to have a global Idle No More rally near the end of January.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatche ... 30114.html
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Re: Idle No More co-founder uneasy with Chief Spence

Postby kibbs » Jan 15th, 2013, 5:01 am

I gleaned this from a native friends face book page,spence is a red hering to distract you from the movement,dont let the media greed for dirty laundry distract you from the real message.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR-9hC8niYI
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Re: Idle No More co-founder uneasy with Chief Spence

Postby dogspoiler » Jan 18th, 2013, 5:44 pm

kibbs wrote:I gleaned this from a native friends face book page,spence is a red hering to distract you from the movement,dont let the media greed for dirty laundry distract you from the real message.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR-9hC8niYI


Spence is a Red Hering ?
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Re: Idle No More co-founder uneasy with Chief Spence

Postby kibbs » Jan 18th, 2013, 6:35 pm

Spence is a Red Hering ?

the media was focusing on her instead of i n m the larger movemet
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Re: Idle No More co-founder uneasy with Chief Spence

Postby Ken7 » Jan 19th, 2013, 12:25 pm

"kibbs"

the media was focusing on her instead of i n m the larger movemet


How smart were they!! Smoke screen Ah, anyways. :dyinglaughing: :dyinglaughing: :dyinglaughing:
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Re: Idle No More co-founder uneasy with Chief Spence

Postby kibbs » Jan 19th, 2013, 5:08 pm

The differences between all the other times they sought justice and change , the movement just sat like a log in the middle of the road and got pushed off eventually.Now with social media joining them internationally,This log has got wheels,the more we chip away at it the sleeker it will get.
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Re: Idle No More co-founder uneasy with Chief Spence

Postby ifwisheswerehorses » Jan 19th, 2013, 6:09 pm

Now a view from the other side, sent to my father who's still in touch with some of his former co-workers (yes names have been taken out for obvious reasons):

"This was sent to me by more former boss in Victoria. Read the report from the Manitoba probation officer.

_______ good to see you concerned about the “Idle no more” initiative. If nothing else it has raised the matter to a discussion stage

I appreciated your email regarding the First Nations quandary facing all Canadians as the memo was right - we all pay.

Having said that a very bright friend of mine who knows the problem first hand since the 70’s says it is “unfixable”. Too many Whites and natives are so entrenched in the “pork barrel” of dealing with the problem and dependant on the legal fees, accounting fees, social programs and political posturing that it has created a life style of analysing the issues in the finest hotels of our nation.




The following was a response to the earlier email regarding the Manitoba Probation Officers email – I sent my assessment to my OFCC ( Old Farts Cycling Coalition) who meet daily to disparage and attempt to solve the world’s problems over coffee.

It is my latest tongue in cheek pragmatic look at some of the barriers and previously aborted solutions


I have no doubt that many of the Probation Officers individual stories are accurate.

It was interesting that this (expert’s) email ends with placing the problems and any potential solutions directly back in the hands of the Band administrators. Who are described as incapable by lack of training, education and moral responsibility; after all the abusive techniques described are only ripping off the white man; who by myth and early story telling at the knee of the band parents and elders - are to blame for the dead buffalo, the lack of beaver to trap and the dirty vermin infested, cold, hunger and unsanitary housing conditions.

And so we come in a complete circle. Taking children away as impressionable beings, training and educating them to be able to effectively run a reserve and solve their own problems – has been tried back in the day and didn’t work. Although it did slake the sexual urgings of some priests.

Putting white administrators into the reserve has been rejected as patronizing and humiliating to the noble Red Man. Although many of these administrators had a comfortable albeit frustrating living; and were able to make a few extra bucks from favoured suppliers of goods and services.

Shoveling money out to incompetent band administrators results in terrible accounting practices ( not much unlike the BC Liberal in Vernon “MLA Foster” who failed to account properly for money spent on his constituency building). Or the Liberals who are spending $15 million of the taxpayers’ dollars to prove they are wonderful administrators of our public money ( and by the way, voting for liberals - will get you another 3 billion dollar bridge built by liberal supporters in voterville across the straight).

So if the bands and politicians are corrupt, it appears that the problem is “unfixable”, as already explained by the wise and all seeing “Zimmer”.

As I said earlier, “when faced with the unfixable” we go biking and if the bike breaks down we go to ______ cycle or _______ and they can fix our problems.
___________.



----- The stories come in !!!! MD



Just a little info to think about when watching the news reports about the chief's hunger strike.
This reportedly was submitted by someone who had worked at "poor" Northern MB. Reserves" (But no name given)
I worked in every “poor” northern Manitoba reserve as a probation officer for years and they are ALL THE SAME. Repeat…ALL THE SAME!!!!! And it’s a local joke!!!! There are more new trucks and cars, skidoos, boats, ATV’s, Flat screen TV’s, Tech toys, and designer clothes in those reserves BUT they will not spend a dime of their own money on their house or appliances or furniture or a broken door or a broken window because “that is the band’s responsibility” and so they don’t, and they wait for the band to fix it – for as long as it takes – which never happens, and the house and everything else in it (except the TV and tech toys) falls apart in squalor. I have seen it personally! Year after year! Band administration takes trips across the country, hell across the world on “aboriginal cultural workshops and healing seminars”, take cruises, stay at fancy hotels, wine and dine and gamble at casinos every year. The chief of one aboriginal community actually owns a very large house in Winnipeg which he lives in and runs band business via skype

For chrissakes! Substance abuse treatment center workers all went on an aboriginal healing cruise” in the Carribean from funds that were supposed to pay for treatment patients. Another bunch flew to Arizona for an Aboriginal Awareness Conference (2 weeks) in the desert (happened to be Close to Las Vegas). They all came back saying they had one Hell of a good time sporting all the turquoise jewelry they bought (also with band funds) As part of their expense accounts. And it goes on and on….and if a white person questions any of that…Yup..you are Racist!!!! Hell, I was racist for recommending sending a man to jail for stabbing and killing his buddy in a drunkin fight over a girlfriend. This man happened to be a band counselor!!!

Did the *bleep* ever hit the fan and I had to get Wpg. provincial justice dept. head office assistance to get that one through. And they wouldn’t let me back on the reserve cause I was a woman, white, and racist!. (Well, what about the guy who was killed and his family!!!! Doesn’t he deserve justice????) Well, in the End the offended and band counselor went to federal jail and my name was mud!

Here is another local joke……lots of the summer forest fires are started by the locals and referred to as “make work projects”. All the guys in the community Get recruited by provincial natural resources depts. to fight the fires and get supplied appropriate clothing, boots, hard hats, gloves etc. and get paid huge dollars (much more than on welfare or seasonal EI. The old folks, women and kids get evacuated to the “city” to be put up for free, they eat out, go shopping, Use recreation facilities to entertain their kids, take cabs all over the city and make a huge mess of the hotel or rec. complex where they are billeted. They even have the gall to complain about the food because their food vouchers aren’t enough to eat out at restaurants where they want to. The first week or two go along smoothly and all the natives are enjoying themselves, but into the third or forth week, the novelty is wearing off and they now want to go home. The fire situation hasn’t changed and their community is still enveloped in smoke but the same people who made such a uproar about needing to be evacuated for health reasons, now want to return to the community cause they need to go fishing or something. They have had their summer vacation, bought everything they wanted to and now want to go home. The airplanes they took them to the city for evacuation now have to be doubled because of all the returning “luggage” like cases of Chips and pop,, TV’s, new clothes and everything else they cared to buy.

Do you know that the Air Canada Stewardesses and flight crews refused to use a downtown Wpg. hotel any more because of the conduct and state left behind every summer by native evacuees. And they were called racist!!!

The Thompson Rec. center and Norplex pool incurred literally thousands of dollars in damages by the evacuees that they refused to billet them any more unless the federal Government paid the bill for clean-up and damages. Fire or any other evacuations are seen as vacations. Hell when I send kids to southern correctional Facilities, the kids see it as a holiday. They get all their medical issues taken care of, teeth, eyes, etc and schooling, and the parents don’t send any clothes with them, they are given to other family members as they expect the justice dept. will outfit the kid going to kiddie jail in a whole new wardrobe to take home with them…And they don’t want any Wal-Mart stuff. No, they want fancy label clothes! Most of these kids are illiterate because they don’t go to the big fancy schools that have been built for them on the reserve. The band administrators have the kids attend for the first week of school so the school qualifies for their per diem Student allowances and then don’t care about what the kids do after that. By Thanksgiving, of the 30 odd kids that started in a classroom, less than a dozen are still attending. So the poor native teacher who complained of being so overworked at the start of the year and needed a teacher aid, now has 10-12 kids and a teacher aid…that is a ratio of 5/6-1. And she is never there in the classroom because she is always traveling out of the community to the city shopping, visiting or whatever because she earns such a good wage, leaving the unqualified teacher aid to teach the remaining students. No wonder they have a dismal high school graduating record. Hell, the students don’t even get to grade 8. And the kids don’t walk to school, they are all bussed. They buy huge numbers of busses, drivers, fuel, maint. people at the start of the school year because all the kids “show up” (at the insistence of chief and council) and then by October less than half are still attending so you have all those big expensive busses driving around the community almost empty. And that doesn’t even begin to look at the waste at the nursing station where people plan their illnesses and ailments to coincide with out of town/city amusement fairs, calendar holidays or out of town family reunions. They never follow through with taking medications as directed as expensive as they are, they don’t look after themselves, diabeties is in epidemic proportions, alcoholism and drug abuse is rampant, It is not uncommon to see the garbage can outside the nursing station containing freshly filled prescriptions of pills or ointments, bandages but the pain killers are usually resold. A lot of northern community members make their own “home brew” even though it is a dry reserve.

I had a school in one community where a full 60% of the kids from grades K-8 were FAS/FAE! If they flew in as much fresh fruit and vegetables as they did pop and chips and Kentucky chicken, there would be a real difference. In one northern community the nurses reported that they could always tell when the caribou herds were near the community for the men to hunt cause they saw such an improvement in the overall health of the band members from eating fresh wild meat and less junk food. I am babbling on….I have NO…repeat NO sympathy for those poor northern reserves and YES, the responsibility rests at the Band office and don’t let any one tell you different. None of them have any training in band administration, finance or even a high school education.

I’ve been there/done that! Funny that the news didn’t show where the chiefs(3) and 14 counselors live!!! Bet it wasn’t in a shack!

$34 million a year !"
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Re: Idle No More co-founder uneasy with Chief Spence

Postby dogspoiler » Jan 19th, 2013, 6:35 pm

Out of all the posts I have seen, I think this one is closest to the truth.
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Re: Idle No More co-founder uneasy with Chief Spence

Postby the truth » Jan 19th, 2013, 9:19 pm

its common knowledge that some native bands not all start forest fires in the summer across canada for work in the summer
everyone knows that,do they not
i will always speak the truth
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Re: Idle No More co-founder uneasy with Chief Spence

Postby Ken7 » Jan 19th, 2013, 11:24 pm

the truth wrote:its common knowledge that some native bands not all start forest fires in the summer across canada for work in the summer
everyone knows that,do they not


That may not be a fair statement.

It is a known fact some natives start forest fires so that they can fight fires for work in the summer.

It is not the band that arranges make work projects but some indaviduals have.

One of the largest fires in Saskatchewan's history was started north of LaRonge, a native told his friends he would find work for all of them. The went to work two days later, fighting a large fire!!
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Re: Idle No More co-founder uneasy with Chief Spence

Postby Ben Dover » Jan 21st, 2013, 10:22 pm

I think that although it may be proved that each example has occurred somewhere and at some time, I also think the (author) has been excessive with exaggeration, and to some she will look like a raging idiot. And as others have pointed out the unsigned aspect of the message calls into question its authenticity, and raises the possibility that it is just another spamming of racist/hate mail which regularly clutters our inboxes. I have also observed some of the issues raised while working and living in proximity and with reserves. But I would not paint everyone and every reserve with that brush.
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Re: Idle No More co-founder uneasy with Chief Spence

Postby kibbs » Jan 22nd, 2013, 7:21 am

I think many people a taking the opportunity to release their half assed stereotypical view without even reading or listening or trying to understand what the movement is about.If your ridiculous view is cut tax money and make life harder for native people you must realize your cowboy politics is a fantasy and not even blip on any real political radar.You worked so hard to get steve in you dont even care what he is doing to the country. Heres some learnin why dont you discuss the movement instead of whining how much better you think they have it.
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Re: Idle No More co-founder uneasy with Chief Spence

Postby Ken7 » Jan 25th, 2013, 10:48 pm

Anthony Sowan: Why Idle No More holds back the dream of Canadian equality.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... -equality/
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Re: Idle No More co-founder uneasy with Chief Spence

Postby kibbs » Jan 25th, 2013, 11:26 pm

A Bicycle is better than a lover because they are always ready.......to go out for a good time!
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Re: Idle No More co-founder uneasy with Chief Spence

Postby Ken7 » Jan 26th, 2013, 12:12 am

kibbs wrote:why tony sowan is an apple.
http://therealaboriginalcanadianfoodgui ... ony-sowan/



Interesting view from Coty Savard. Funny he isn't on the same page as the founders..

http://idlenomore.ca/
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