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Idle no more!

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Re: Idle no more!

Postby kibbs » Jan 27th, 2013, 2:15 pm

What is happening with treaties now?
During the Jan. 11 meeting between Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Assembly of First Nations National Chief Shawn Atleo, Harper agreed to a "high-level dialogue on the treaty relationship and comprehensive claims." The process was to be overseen by his office and the Privy Council Office, which is the bureaucratic side of the PMO. That was "the first time I saw the federal government say they were going to talk about treaty implementation, but people are scrambling to understand what that means," Wilson said.
First Nations leaders, including chiefs in Manitoba, want a "nation-to-nation" discussion about implementing the spirit and intent of the treaties. Nation-to-nation would be from the perspective that both sides at the table are equals. One of Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs Grand Chief Derek Nepinak's biggest complaints about the Jan. 11 meeting with Harper was that it was not being organized as a nation-to-nation discussion, but a top-down meeting over which the prime minister reigned.

Heres the full article good stuff
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinio ... 70781.html

I have not found one coment from chief louis on idle no more
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Re: Idle no more!

Postby Ken7 » Jan 27th, 2013, 3:26 pm

"SurplusElect


Chief Louie was sitting on a goldmine and it exploded underneath his feet.

To suggest that the only real problem here is "laziness" is a insult. As I said, the problems are broad and encompassing and for the chief to look down his nose at others when 15 years ago that entire valley was a brown wasteland is injury upon insult.

Also to suggest "water resources" to be developed is a joke. Ever heard of black flies and North Western Ontario skagit swamp? The desirable fishing spots in that region are developed, and it's not near the volume "the hottest place in Canada/wine country" draws in tourism. All the bands in that region send their kids to live in dormitories in Thunder Bay where they are experiencing huge problems with racism and crime because of the disassociation and lack of economic opportunity. I also lived in that region and my mother worked as a distance education provider to distant bands and I have a interesting and valid perspective on this beyond just reading headlines. There are no roads to get the logs in, let alone the product out without it being cost prohibitive.

As I said, the bands that do well have the most valuable land. Then you have "white" outside interests looking to bring money into that community and "take" from that land.

When this country was settled, it was populated with the toughest and hard working people there were. Some settled on valuable land and some people settled too far away from population centers, on sour/rocky land that wouldn't grow anything but weeds. No matter how much hard work was put into it, the math didn't fly. Let alone social/economic/cultural factors natives face.

Also, anyone who says "Indian time" is clearly racist.

What would we say if at a Jewish businessman's seminar the head speaker was conveying a message "Not to be cheap like a Jew" when taking clients out to dinner - and that's a lighter equivalent of what he is suggesting.

He's distancing himself to make his business partners comfortable.

He said it himself.




It appears from anything I've seen or read that Attawapiskat had no incentives for anyone other then those who work for the Band. I cannot say I've been to their neck of the woods, although there has to be something. Further to, IF they had any drive the Government grants they would receive could move them forward.

Why do Natives bash Chief Louis, he says it as he sees it and has turned some of his people in the right direction.

It appears many do because he sees what if happening with his people and other Nations and is honest about the lack of drive some have. Being honest isn't always being racist if you have facts to prove the statement.

You cannot tell me without his efforts his Band would not be sitting on pay dirt as you call it. If he was like Attawapiskat Chief, and sat and deceived her people padding her account and or pissing it to the wind Osoyoos Indian band would not be known across this Country!

I am not for the moment painting all Bands with the same brush, but Attawapiskat is a failure and that is apparent.
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Re: Idle no more!

Postby Roadster » Jan 27th, 2013, 7:07 pm

SurplusElect wrote:Not every reserve has that valuable of land as Osoyoos lake, tourist central, wine country.

For many years the east side of the southern valley sat brown and dormant, until land prices went haywire due to vineyard crazies. Yes they took charge, but it's not like the majority of bands hold some of the most valuable/desired land in Canada, let alone during a real estate boom.

He should roll back his photo book and check out pics of his band's land from the early nineties before he speaks into a microphone. ""Pot hole Chief"? I grew up down there.



Talk about self hate bro. Seriously? He is making a point... Don't be late.

Yes it's good to take charge, and I agree that people need to help themselves but total Uncle Tomish behavior on his part. So what can "Chief Spence" do in order to help get her band members "Boardroom Bobs" in flipping Bumblebee Arcticcircleville?

Move them all down to Osoyoos? Lol.

The problems are broad and this guy was sitting on a goldmine and now speaks borderline racist stuff. The people he does business with need to hear this from him as well. Quell the fear, good for business. Cant invest if there's a chance...


You are reading as if he is saying every band's land can be made into what his was,,, he isn't saying that if you read it with an open mind,,, now his land turned into that but his point is he saw the opportunity to help his people... How about those ho can also help themselves? Does a person have to stay on that land if there is nothing on it? He says no. He says opportunity is in the air, might not be as easy as how he stepped onto something which was basically under his feet but it could be something in resume's you send out that comes up.
I had to leave when school was done or start paying rent and doing my share as an adult which woulda included buying my own food and likely my share of home maintenance, my thought,,, thanks mom and dad,, I may as well do this in my own place and gain my rights to my own rules under my own roof,,, I think chief Smart guy is saying that,,, move it or lose it,,, it's time people pay their own way in life,,, whether its by being lucky on your own land or moving on and finding luck somewhere else.
Let's remember he got lucky, but did he pass it up? No he jumped all over it and took some massive steps to make it happen. Even tho the land was becoming something I am sure he had to prove it would all work. It didn't just turn into gold laying on the surface that he could walk by and put bits of it in his pocket...
If I won the lottery I would take each and every one of you to a secluded island in the sea for the biggest party you have ever known. One way. Those of you who love me when you find your way back would be my friends.
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Re: Idle no more!

Postby j watson » Jan 27th, 2013, 7:33 pm

kibbs wrote:What is happening with treaties now?
During the Jan. 11 meeting between Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Assembly of First Nations National Chief Shawn Atleo, Harper agreed to a "high-level dialogue on the treaty relationship and comprehensive claims." The process was to be overseen by his office and the Privy Council Office, which is the bureaucratic side of the PMO. That was "the first time I saw the federal government say they were going to talk about treaty implementation, but people are scrambling to understand what that means," Wilson said.
First Nations leaders, including chiefs in Manitoba, want a "nation-to-nation" discussion about implementing the spirit and intent of the treaties. Nation-to-nation would be from the perspective that both sides at the table are equals. One of Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs Grand Chief Derek Nepinak's biggest complaints about the Jan. 11 meeting with Harper was that it was not being organized as a nation-to-nation discussion, but a top-down meeting over which the prime minister reigned.

Heres the full article good stuff
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinio ... 70781.html

I have not found one coment from chief louis on idle no more


Actually, they are not equals and never will be. Let's be realistic.
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Re: Idle no more!

Postby goatboy » Jan 27th, 2013, 10:30 pm

[quote="SurplusElect"]

When this country was settled, it was populated with the toughest and hard working people there were. Some settled on valuable land and some people settled too far away from population centers, on sour/rocky land that wouldn't grow anything but weeds. No matter how much hard work was put into it, the math didn't fly. Let alone social/economic/cultural factors natives face.

[quote]

So what did these settlers do? They moved to places where they could survive without a $100 million dollar bankroll from all of us. There's nothing stopping any of these natives from leaving the reserve. Oh wait, there is, no more tax free status.
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Re: Idle no more!

Postby Roadster » Jan 28th, 2013, 12:04 am

goatboy wrote:
So what did these settlers do? They moved to places where they could survive without a $100 million dollar bankroll from all of us. There's nothing stopping any of these natives from leaving the reserve. Oh wait, there is, no more tax free status.


I do believe even when off the reserve they still get free medical, free education, cheap tobacco and cheap gas tho, so really the only difference I think when off the reserve is they gotta pay a rent or buy a house and probably work and then pay taxes on their income,,, I might be wrong but that's still a good deal if so. Once they have full status I think those things stay for life.
If I won the lottery I would take each and every one of you to a secluded island in the sea for the biggest party you have ever known. One way. Those of you who love me when you find your way back would be my friends.
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Re: Idle no more!

Postby jennylives » Jan 28th, 2013, 12:14 am

Medical benefits are the only off reserve benefits. Education depends on the band. Tobacco and gas are full price off reserves.
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Re: Idle no more!

Postby Roadster » Jan 28th, 2013, 12:26 am

There is a Mohawk near the channel way on the way out of Penticton and they sold them gas and smokes if they had a status card. They didn't have to be on a reserve as far as I know unless they are lying, cos a friend of mine used to ask me to drive him there so he could get his smokes sometimes and he was living off reserve, in fact his reserve was on the island near Duncan if I remember right. He told me he got everything sept a free place to live and he was not getting money like they do on the reserve so he went to the welfare office for his money. Maybe he was lying about those other things,,,, dunno,,, but I do know he was on welfare cos he asked me to drive him there a few times when he was called in to fill out forms and such.
If I won the lottery I would take each and every one of you to a secluded island in the sea for the biggest party you have ever known. One way. Those of you who love me when you find your way back would be my friends.
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Re: Idle no more!

Postby jennylives » Jan 28th, 2013, 12:30 am

If the store is on a reserve they do not pay tax. All off reserve purchase are taxed though. The store near the channel in Penticton is on the reserve.

Store on reserve and native lives on reserve = No tax
Store off reserve and native lives on reserve = Taxable
Store on reserve and (status) native lives off reserve = No tax
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Re: Idle no more!

Postby Roadster » Jan 28th, 2013, 12:50 am

I see, I never knew it was on reserve, just drove my buddy there when he asked and I could do it. But still they can go to these stores on a reserve and get their cheap stuff even if it's not their own reserve,,,

He also asked me to take him to a store near OK falls once, must have been a reserve as well.
If I won the lottery I would take each and every one of you to a secluded island in the sea for the biggest party you have ever known. One way. Those of you who love me when you find your way back would be my friends.
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Re: Idle no more!

Postby twobits » Jan 28th, 2013, 8:15 am

SurplusElect wrote:Chief Louie was sitting on a goldmine and it exploded underneath his feet.



Closer to the truth would be Chief Louie was sitting on a lemon and made lemonade.
Recognized as the only true desert in Canada....sand, sagebrush, rock. No water for agrculture unless pumped. No fishery, no viable forest lands, no mineral resources.
Yeah, he sure had a silver platter handed to him.
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Re: Idle no more!

Postby SurplusElect » Jan 28th, 2013, 2:28 pm

twobits wrote:No water for agrculture unless pumped. No fishery, no viable forest lands, no mineral resources.
Yeah, he sure had a silver platter handed to him.


That land is some of the most valuable agricultural land in Canada.

Not to mention - its "wine country" - not "black fly/swamp" country.

Early 90's, not so much. That's why the entire east side of the valley was a wasteland during that time period.

Chief Louie only worked as hard as a guy checking the newspaper to see if real estate prices were skyrocketing.

I mean, sure he had to show up on time and wear a suit, but life is not rough when you own all that desirable land that is suddenly worth gold and every real estate speculator from Vancouver to Toronto wants to buy you dinner.

Now he's got the coin and gets to be a self-hating native and make his WASP business partners happy by being openly racist. Just like a construction worker slagging homosexuals at a job site during "watercooler talk", just so everyone knows he's not "one of them".
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Re: Idle no more!

Postby Roadster » Jan 28th, 2013, 2:49 pm

Yay for him! Some would just looked out the window and done nothing,,, he did something great! He will never be forgotten.

I am totally impressed about how he skidded in on his bum and stole that prison from everyone while they weren't looking :dyinglaughing:
If I won the lottery I would take each and every one of you to a secluded island in the sea for the biggest party you have ever known. One way. Those of you who love me when you find your way back would be my friends.
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Re: Idle no more!

Postby SurplusElect » Jan 28th, 2013, 4:03 pm

Roadster wrote:I am totally impressed about how he skidded in on his bum and stole that prison from everyone while they weren't looking :dyinglaughing:


I guess that whole comment about "jobs are not found at the band office" was just window dressing?
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Re: Idle no more!

Postby Roadster » Jan 28th, 2013, 4:26 pm

Really, who cares,,,? He made something of himself, his band and he gets my respect. He has all rights to dig deep into the bones of others to offer a little push that could help them move on. Either they got mad at his meetings or they used that message in a positive way and have done something for themselves.
He is tired of the excuses as are most people. Yup, we all need a kick in the bum to get things done sometimes and he is their people trying to send that message so they get respect they call out for and are better understood. To think they want to be understood as history only is a shame, they should be trying to build their kid's futures to become well respected men and women of the Canadian population, you know, just in case the funding ever ends,,, what if that happened? Where would they be then? It will end I am sure some day and they should be prepared.
We look at our kids as our mental and sometimes physical support for when we get old and need care as our children will hope their's will do the same. We look at them as our future leaders and inventors and supporters of our country. Every Canadian should be hoping for their kids to be the great minds of our future,,, you can argue history and a lucky chief all you want but in the end of the day his band is making money and he is the reason and I hope his people follow his foot steps and "get lucky" like he did. Luck doesn't flop into your lap, you Do have to be looking in it's direction and spot the chance to use it.
If I hadn't been looking I woulda been a server in a small town that I was living in when I was done school many years ago cos thats all the work that was there, but I stepped out of that space and something showed up, and again and again. Being a server wasn't my calling but many interesting things came my way and if I got bored of something I moved on and sometimes had to move away to keep myself interested and motivated in something that kept me with my freedom and happiness. Why doesnt everyone want to have that freedom and access to all that's available?
If I won the lottery I would take each and every one of you to a secluded island in the sea for the biggest party you have ever known. One way. Those of you who love me when you find your way back would be my friends.
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