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Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby cv23 » Feb 1st, 2013, 8:56 am

Seems to be one set of rules for aboriginals and another for the rest of us.

Subject:The RCMP, not Harper, should be meeting with Chief Spence

A new audit of the Attawapiskat Indian reserve was released Monday. It was shocking.

The accounting firm of Deloitte randomly chose 505 financial transactions, between April 1, 2005 and Nov. 30, 2011, to review. They found 81% of files did not have adequate supporting documents and over 60% had no documentation of the reason for payment.

A lot of that money was supposed to go to housing. Attawapiskat is the reserve where some houses have leaky roofs, poor insulation, broken plumbing and are generally unfit for habitation. But Deloitte wrote, 'There is no evidence of due diligence in the use of public funds, including the use of funds for housing.'

Deloitte can't find where the money went. But maybe the long list of people on the band's rich payroll might know, starting with Theresa Spence, the chief, or her boyfriend, Clayton Kennedy, who just happens to be the town's financial manager. He bills the band $850 a day to manage their finances.

In fact, there are 21 politicians on the band payroll. Plus plenty of full-time staff. But Deloitte didn't find that reassuring: Attawapiskat First Nation did not provide us with any job descriptions for individuals who are involved in the financial management of funding agreements.

The band doesn't even produce annual budgets. High school football teams have budgets. The band council doesn't keep regular minutes of their meetings, either. Ordinary band members can't find out what their politicians are doing. (Spence, in a news release Monday, dismissed the audit's release as no more than a distraction from the true issue and said it was an attempt to discredit her.)

So what does this all look like, if you pour $100 million through such a system, as the federal government has done since 2005? Well, here are a few of the findings in Deloitte's sample of 505 transactions.

In September, 2011, at the height of the housing crisis, they spent $4,333 on breakfast supplies. No documentation. No contract, no invoice.
In April of 2011, a consultant got paid $303,256. The identity of the consultant is not known. The documentation is incomplete.What kind of
consultant did Attawapiskat need for $303,256 last year? In the middle of a housing crisis? Was it a roofing consultant? Someone to develop a roofing strategy? Is that why they didn't have money to actually hire a roofer?

There are many of these employment contracts often six figures, always anonymous.

Another common one is other purchases. One was for $87,150. Auditor's note: Occurrence questionable. Was anything even bought? Who knows?

Countless money was spent on legal fees. One payment was for $68,910 lawyer unknown, no supporting documentation. Was it band business? Or maybe someone's divorce?

What about a real estate deal three years ago for $1.1 million? But it's an Indian reserve. The band already owns all the land. And the vendor is anonymous. There was zero supporting documentation. Was this $1.1 million property deal even in Attawapiskat? Or was it in Florida?

There are a flurry of these property purchases all secret, no street address or even a general geographic location given. Eighty-one percent of the files the auditor checked are this way. Not 1% or 2%. This isn't an error. It's a way of life.

If the people involved had Italian names and were from the Montreal construction industry, or French-Canadian names from Montreal ad agencies, instead of Indian consultants from Attawapiskat, there would be resignations and criminal charges flying.

But it would be racist to ask tough questions of Chief Spence and her boyfriend. And, she's so close to starving herself, it would be mean, too.

Should Stephen Harper have met with Chief Spence?

Shouldn't the RCMP have done so first?
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Ken7 » Feb 1st, 2013, 9:02 am

I said from the start this is a file for the RCMP.

By all means from what is before us if there isn't Fraud charges against the Chief or her boyfriend, I too will have lost all confidence in our Judicial system.


Deloitte can't find where the money went. But maybe the long list of people on the band's rich payroll might know, starting with Theresa Spence, the chief, or her boyfriend, Clayton Kennedy, who just happens to be the town's financial manager. He bills the band $850 a day to manage their finances.

In fact, there are 21 politicians on the band payroll. Plus plenty of full-time staff. But Deloitte didn't find that reassuring: Attawapiskat First Nation did not provide us with any job descriptions for individuals who are involved in the financial management of funding agreements.

The band doesn't even produce annual budgets. High school football teams have budgets. The band council doesn't keep regular minutes of their meetings, either. Ordinary band members can't find out what their politicians are doing. (Spence, in a news release Monday, dismissed the audit's release as no more than a distraction from the true issue and said it was an attempt to discredit her.)


All the supporters here, help me understand how you can support this Chief and justify her being in charge of a Nation?
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby zzontar » Feb 1st, 2013, 9:11 am

But it would be racist to ask tough questions of Chief Spence and her boyfriend. And, she's so close to starving herself, it would be mean, too.


THAT is a huge part of the problem. Politicians have always walked on eggshells around those issues when if there was someone with the balls to investigate how so much of our tax dollars are disappearing a long time ago it would have been better for all, except of course the ones that have been ripping off their own people for so long. Strange that no matter how much damning evidence surfaces about native leaders ripping their people off, the natives never say a peep about it.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Roadster » Feb 1st, 2013, 10:01 am

zzontar wrote:THAT is a huge part of the problem. Politicians have always walked on eggshells around those issues when if there was someone with the balls to investigate how so much of our tax dollars are disappearing a long time ago it would have been better for all, except of course the ones that have been ripping off their own people for so long. Strange that no matter how much damning evidence surfaces about native leaders ripping their people off, the natives never say a peep about it.


There has always been this thing they talk about in their culture, respect for the elders and such, I am sure band leaders get that respect too, Now if it was a non native running things and there was ripping off going on that they knew about I am betting they would be standing up loud and clear for their needs just like any Joe Public does when governments do wrong. To me it would be like taking what Big Brother offers you. Maybe,,, dont complain or you might get less next time??? Quite possibly those other Band gov officials with nice pay cheques and no job descriptions are the few loud ones they need to take care of,,,, Just a thought,,,,
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby coffeeFreak » Feb 1st, 2013, 8:12 pm

What more can be said about Chief Spence here that hasn't already been said more than enough times?! Come on folks there are bigger fish in the see to worry about than this woman. Now Harper is the Chief you should be focusing on...I'd say there is a heck of lot more money at stake with him, wouldn't you?

Questions raised about future role of Parliamentary Budget Officer after Kevin Page leaves
His unvarnished reports have put him in conflict with Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s government over deficit projections, F-35 fighter jet costs, the need to change Old Age Security and prison price tags.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/01/22/questions_raised_about_future_role_of_parliamentary_budget_officer_after_kevin_page_leaves.html


Conservative government covered expenses for top CEOs travelling with Stephen Harper on China tour
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01/21/conservative-government-covered-expenses-for-top-ceos-travelling-with-stephen-harper-on-china-tour/

$1-million tab for Harper’s armoured cars in India needed for security: Baird
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/1-million-tab-for-harpers-armoured-cars-in-india-needed-for-security-baird/article7963832/

Federal spending up 22% since Harper took powerhttp://news.nationalpost.com/2011/11/17/federal-spending-up-22-since-harper-took-power/

AG report once again shows Conservative mismanagement
http://www.ndp.ca/news/ag-report-once-again-shows-conservative-mismanagement

Conservatives’ Mismanagement of Money Continues -- POSTED ON JUNE 27, 2012
http://judyfoote.liberal.ca/news/conservatives-mismanagement-of-money-continues/


Conservative Management Making Recession Worse
http://gordiecanuk.blogspot.ca/2009/06/conservative-mismanagement-making.html#.UQx9ir9X1nE
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Libelle » Feb 1st, 2013, 9:54 pm

What Harper and or the Canadian govt spend taxpayer money on can be money not well spent. But at the end of the day even after all the trips to India are done we still have services (medical, law etc) where as with Ms. spence in company there is nothing left over for her people. The farce of their financial documents prove just that. Wonder how many days Ms. Spenced sunned herself under the hot Flordia sun while her people remained cold? She will take up a hunger strike to protest the injustices that are being done to her people by the govt, all the while sippin on a cocktail in good ol Flordia on her people's and the tax payer dime.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Roadster » Feb 1st, 2013, 10:15 pm

I don't care about our government as much on this thread as this band stuff, we stand up and speak for ourselves and the media can investigate as well and when they are caught they get called on it, charged and could even be jailed for cash crimes. Seems on some reserves it's impossible to catch em and prove money was spent in an improper fashion if they won't document it's use and if the people won't speak up it's even harder. Like I said earlier it's like the elder thing on some reserves I am sure allowing them to act as a big brother rather then an actual government. They should have one chief for all reserves and a very few organizers for a 300 house chunk of land and the money should be going through a separate system off the reserve and doled out as should be, (if we must continue to pay them as is, I think it needs to be remodeled tho to make it an educational thing and a work project)
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby zookeeper » Feb 2nd, 2013, 10:55 am

zzontar wrote: you post all the news articles blasting the native leaders for ripping off their people by natives and I'll post the ones from non-natives and we'll see who has the most...



The difference being when the federal, provincial or municipal governments "rip off" their peoples hard earned tax dollars there is no ranting about kicking Canadians off of their land, cutting off people on welfare, making the unemployed move around, job losses, who owns what where, which "leader" needs a diet etc. etc.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby albertabound » Feb 2nd, 2013, 11:16 am

:ohmygod: What is wrong here? You indians lost the war ,the govt. at the time felt sorry and put you on reserves, youu could work and go to school, you are lazy and want to be looked after. After all these years and billions of dollars you like to live that way. A lot of natives have bettered themselves instead of crying and bithching. Go to school, do not be so lazy. :sunshine:
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby grammafreddy » Feb 2nd, 2013, 11:21 am

albertabound wrote::ohmygod: What is wrong here? You indians lost the war ,the govt. at the time felt sorry and put you on reserves, youu could work and go to school, you are lazy and want to be looked after. After all these years and billions of dollars you like to live that way. A lot of natives have bettered themselves instead of crying and bithching. Go to school, do not be so lazy. :sunshine:


Ummm ... you need to go back to school and learn some history about why the Indians got put on the reserves by the Canadian government and about the "schooling" those kids got.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby grammafreddy » Feb 2nd, 2013, 11:23 am

Graham Adder wrote:AGAIN...you're talking out your arse.

AGAIN, you're pus is oozing and it stinks.

I'm First Nations, and I have a lot...a LOT to say about Chief Spence and even MORE to say about the new Millionaires Club.
I also know where to speak and where not to.
Around such vile and disgusting imbeciles I will not speak, as it is you and your type that cause most of the rift we see today and I simply will not feed your fire. Your smoke burns black.

You disgust me.

Any of you that think for one moment that First Nations, Natives, Aboriginals or whatever term you choose to mock support the misuse of government funding are wrong.
That would be absolutely absurd.

Of course we want change.
Of course we know it's past due time we get this whole mess sorted out.
Nobody wants to be on the governmental teat.
It's not as easy as a narrow minded buffoon might think though.
The "taps" cannot just be shut off.
There needs to be an effective, transparent and definitive plan set forth to protect what is left of the indigenous people's heritage while maintaining forward momentum as a nation.

It's time the witless stop addressing this in the typical narrow minded ways of thinking and start to open your eyes to what we have at stake.

Many of the lands in this country to this day have not been signed away by treaties. We cannot just expect to take those lands now under the cloak of "ownership is nine tenths of the law". Any dumbass with a pea in their gourd knows that.

We also have to realize that no amount of time has squashed the fact that First Nations people have their own set of ideals to what wealth means. Stop trying to compare one race to another. It doesn't work that way.

I could go on and on for days I am sure, but in the end of my writing it will still be apparently obvious that I am playing in the wrong court. I'm never going to change a mind that is closed for the season. I'd be wasting my time.


:rate10:

Well said, GA.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby zookeeper » Feb 2nd, 2013, 11:38 am

albertabound wrote: A lot of natives have bettered themselves



Yes they have, so to keep insisting on the closed minded theory that all Indians are uneducated, lazy and live in squalor, that all of them just want more hand outs, is hogwash.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby zookeeper » Feb 2nd, 2013, 11:58 am

albertabound wrote::ohmygod: What is wrong here? You indians



This is just an assumption, a stereo-typical view that all non-natives see Indians in Attawapiskat colours.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Boda » Feb 2nd, 2013, 12:03 pm

I'm First Nations, and I have a lot...a LOT to say about Chief Spence and even MORE to say about the new Millionaires Club.
I also know where to speak and where not to.

Where is the appropriate place to speak to this alleged malfeacance?

Around such vile and disgusting imbeciles I will not speak, as it is you and your type that cause most of the rift we see today and I simply will not feed your fire. Your smoke burns black.

I beleive the disgusting imbeciles to which you refer are the majority of tax paying Canadians of whom are passive enough to have alowed the enabeling of Indians (or whatever term you choose to refer to your race) for so long.
You disgust me.
Disgust of the source of your peoples very livleyhood is not the best way to negotiate yet further monitary gain. Any of you that think for one moment that First Nations, Natives, Aboriginals or whatever term you choose to mock support the misuse of government funding are wrong.
That would be absolutely absurd.
I don't understand your point in his paragraph?[/b
Of course we want change.
[b]Be the change you want to see.
Of course we know it's past due time we get this whole mess sorted out.
Nobody wants to be on the governmental teat.
[b]This statement is not supported by the actons of most Indians/natives/First Nations/Aboriginals (Whatever term)
It's not as easy as a narrow minded buffoon might think though.
So how about offering suggestions for amicable solutions
The "taps" cannot just be shut off.
Maybe not, suggestions? Although it worked pretty good for the Ford guys brother. Let's dicuss options.
There needs to be an effective, transparent and definitive plan set forth to protect what is left of the indigenous people's heritage while maintaining forward momentum as a nation.
O.K. I can agree that it will probably be a good investment to throw some more dollars at protecting Indian heritage. There are other visible minorities in Canada that have successfully applied for grants to enrich and maintain thier cultures on Canadian soil.
Not that I personnally agree with said handouts but there is an agument of fairness to be made here.

It's time the witless stop addressing this in the typical narrow minded ways of thinking and start to open your eyes to what we have at stake.

Many of the lands in this country to this day have not been signed away by treaties. We cannot just expect to take those lands now under the cloak of "ownership is nine tenths of the law". Any dumbass with a pea in their gourd knows that.
Quit playing the "we were here first card". Heard it all before. Too late. Assimilate and learn to live on the same paltry handout as the rest of us whose ancestors got here second. Or??? Options are endless.

We also have to realize that no amount of time has squashed the fact that First Nations people have their own set of ideals to what wealth means. Stop trying to compare one race to another. It doesn't work that way.
Are you sayng different races of humans are not equal?

I could go on and on for days I am sure, but in the end of my writing it will still be apparently obvious that I am playing in the wrong court. I'm never going to change a mind that is closed for the season. I'd be wasting my time.[/quote]
That works both ways Graham, your postings depict an underlying dislike of fellow Canadians or should I say fellow Canadians with whom your opinion varies.

Edited ror spelling & grammar
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby zzontar » Feb 2nd, 2013, 12:43 pm

Graham Adder wrote:Of course we want change.

Nobody wants to be on the governmental teat.


If you think the natives want to be on the same playing field as the rest of Canadians, perhaps you should start a demonstration with signs that read "We don't want government handouts, we want jobs!" The amount of native support you'd get would overwhelm the INM movement if you're right, but then again if you were right, these protests would have started long ago.
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