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Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Graham Adder » Feb 4th, 2013, 3:29 pm

cv23 wrote:If being a full status native doesn't qualify a person to speak on native issues what exactly does?

Depends on what issues.
Experience goes a long way to speaking on behalf of...
To speak against natives in such a tone as to say none of them deserve help is blatantly ignorant of truth and you know it.
If you don't, then refer to the words 18 through 21 of my last line.

You aren't really, genuinely trying to push this argument are you cv?
I mean: Do you really want to look like...that?
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Graham Adder » Feb 4th, 2013, 3:31 pm

Roadster wrote:So really it's looking like the native person must live on his land to understand and remain a true native,,,


Really?

REALLY?

C'mon, should I be sporting a freaking hockey helmet to play in this sandbox or what?
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Roadster » Feb 4th, 2013, 3:34 pm

grammafreddy wrote:
That would be the same as Roadie saying Scottish people shouldn't wear kilts any more if they don't live in Scotland and play the bagpipes.

Oh boy do you need glasses,,, I said it's not hard to keep the family values while not living on the homeland,,, my nephew has his whole kilt and all the traditional stuff he should, oh and so do I, I went to the homeland as my family suggested we all should. I went to the museums,,, the records offices to look up family history and traveled where my family started...
My cousin plays the bag pipes and in fact he now plays for the RCMP as a volunteer in Edmonton area and all of his three daughters are sword dancers...

Please read me again...
Last edited by Roadster on Feb 4th, 2013, 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Graham Adder » Feb 4th, 2013, 3:37 pm

Roadster wrote:
Please read me again...

consider yourself read.

Now, what to do with this piece of paper.


:purefury:

I KNOW!!!
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby grammafreddy » Feb 4th, 2013, 3:37 pm

grammafreddy wrote:
That would be the same as Roadie saying Scottish people shouldn't wear kilts any more if they don't live in Scotland and play the bagpipes.

Roadster wrote:Oh boy do you need glasses,,, I said it's not hard to keep the family values while not living on the homeland,,, my nephew has his whole kilt and all the traditional stuff he should, oh and so do I, I went to the homeland as my family suggested we all should. I went to the museums,,, the records offices to look up family history and traveled where my family started...

Please read me again...


Roadie, don't be dense - I said it would be like you saying that. I did not say that's what you said.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Roadster » Feb 4th, 2013, 3:40 pm

You needed to say that a little more carefully like as If Roadie was saying,,, sorry I miss read but you see why... And I guess this means you see my point,,, living somewhere isn't all that educates us and allows us to speak of our homelands and how things were and are.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Roadster » Feb 4th, 2013, 3:43 pm

Roadster wrote:So really it's looking like the native person must live on his land to understand and remain a true native,,,


GA
Really?

REALLY?

C'mon, should I be sporting a freaking hockey helmet to play in this sandbox or what?

Read back, several have said it, I am just the recording device you see on your monitor :dyinglaughing:



And if you are native GA, what right do you think Gramma Freddie has to tell your stories and educate us if she wasn't native and never lived on a reserve in those condition? Now maybe she has,,, it's Just a thought... Your opinion here would be an awesome chunk of education for me. Sorry GF, not trying to be mean but it would go both ways so I would like to hear what a native person really thinks about that guy or any of us speaking of the same subject.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Graham Adder » Feb 4th, 2013, 3:44 pm

Well, clear enough to me that there is not one stitch of hope that anyone still beaking off with their negativity toward any one race is going to be swayed or turned about by anything I or anyone in these pages has or can say...so...

It's pretty much done for this Proud First Nations Man.

Cheers all, and thanks for playing along.
weeeeeeeeee!
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby grammafreddy » Feb 4th, 2013, 3:48 pm

Roadster wrote:You needed to say that a little more carefully like as If Roadie was saying,,, sorry I miss read but you see why... And I guess this means you see my point,,, living somewhere isn't all that educates us and allows us to speak of our homelands and how things were and are.


I got your point - but it was not relevant. Trying to compare your life with that of a native on a reservation is not comparable. Trying to compare your family history with that of any native person's family history has no meaning in this discussion.

Nobody has tried to beat the Scottish heritage out of you or your family, have they? Your family was never forced to live on a reservation, the kids were never taken away from the parents, forced to become something they were not or to accept a god they didn't want or a lifestyle that was foreign to them. The women in your family were never sterilized by the government so they couldn't breed more Indian children. The atrocities go on and on.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby kibbs » Feb 4th, 2013, 3:51 pm

So tell us now just who is the intolerant one making religous slurs?

Hebrewed is not a religious slur it come from Olde charlie farquesons testament.An endearing northern Ontario term for Jewish people."thatd be your hebrewed baby"If I was so intolerant .would I have Lived and had Half hebrewed babies with a Jewish woman.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Roadster » Feb 4th, 2013, 3:55 pm

Roadster wrote:You needed to say that a little more carefully like as If Roadie was saying,,, sorry I miss read but you see why... And I guess this means you see my point,,, living somewhere isn't all that educates us and allows us to speak of our homelands and how things were and are.


GF
I got your point - but it was not relevant. Trying to compare your life with that of a native on a reservation is not comparable. Trying to compare your family history with that of any native person's family history has no meaning in this discussion.

Nobody has tried to beat the Scottish heritage out of you or your family, have they? Your family was never forced to live on a reservation, the kids were never taken away from the parents, forced to become something they were not or to accept a god they didn't want or a lifestyle that was foreign to them. The women in your family were never sterilized by the government so they couldn't breed more Indian children. The atrocities go on and on.



Of course it doesn't, they are natives and I am not,,, I see,,, and ya my family history,,, we had our bad times,,, you bet we did,,, read up on Scotland sometime and see what those family clans went through... I seen my families story, I know how it looked, I am still here anyway, not dwelling on what happened way back then.

So ya not the same but only different, most families came from fighting backgrounds to gain or hold their place. The point I think you are missing is it's all old stuff, history, and we as humans must some day move on and gain for ourselves as most do.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby zookeeper » Feb 4th, 2013, 4:17 pm

That is the part you don't want to get, Roadster, it's not history. Many of these people didn't read about it or learn it, they LIVED it. It is their generation that has given birth to the generation after ours, the ones who want a better lives for their grandchildren that are coming NOW. They have and are moving on, just not fast enough apparently. All the money in the world can not buy back what was taken from them, heal the wounds, yet they are trying to move forward. How do we ask them to give up their homes and come be with us when it is us that they can not trust because we broke that trust. How do we as Canadians benefit from doing so when if you look around (I've pointed out the general direction before) we can't even take care of our own.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby grammafreddy » Feb 4th, 2013, 4:20 pm

GF
I got your point - but it was not relevant. Trying to compare your life with that of a native on a reservation is not comparable. Trying to compare your family history with that of any native person's family history has no meaning in this discussion.

Nobody has tried to beat the Scottish heritage out of you or your family, have they? Your family was never forced to live on a reservation, the kids were never taken away from the parents, forced to become something they were not or to accept a god they didn't want or a lifestyle that was foreign to them. The women in your family were never sterilized by the government so they couldn't breed more Indian children. The atrocities go on and on.

Roadster wrote:
Of course it doesn't, they are natives and I am not,,, I see,,, and ya my family history,,, we had our bad times,,, you bet we did,,, read up on Scotland sometime and see what those family clans went through... I seen my families story, I know how it looked, I am still here anyway, not dwelling on what happened way back then.

So ya not the same but only different, most families came from fighting backgrounds to gain or hold their place.


Sooooooooo .... why would you say what natives should do or not do? They are still living under the Indian Act and the whim of the federal government - 200 years later. Why should a native person live a white person's life? Fine for Mr Sowan, that's his life and his decision to live that way but it sure isn't up to him - or to you - to say what a native person should do, other than himself.

I know a bit about Scottish history and the clans (am a MacTavish myself with family hereditary rights to the Royal Stewart tartan). But I don't consider that relevant to anything to do with native peoples here in Canada. I also have not said anything here about what the native people should do, which you have been most eloquent about - like you have some right to say what kind of life they should have based on what your life is or has been. All I have ever said is that things need to change because the way it is now is not working. I have also said that the history of the events that transpired between natives and government needs to be known and understood in order to be able to move forward to make change happen. The federal government has not been squeaky clean and has broken their treaties with the native people.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Roadster » Feb 4th, 2013, 4:37 pm

People have lost their homes, fallen to the bottom, in today's world and they come back. The natural way of human life is to move forward and survive even if we have to hit bottom first sometimes. In today's world the natives are not the only ones to suffer... People are still suffering and more will and they don't get held in the frozen tundra, they seek help if they can and they come back... The difference is these people could be under the understanding there is nothing beyond their fence line so they are not being encouraged outward,,,?
If we paid for just one person per reserve first, this year say, see how many of them move on up and how many come back to the res,,, bet most will see the open side of what's beyond the fence and I'll enjoy that new life. They will come back to visit but in the long run I think people as a whole like to see their money, live in good homes and have freedom to roam as they like,,, you argue they don't if you like. To me living up there would be like a prison,,, it would kill me and honestly,,, I feel sorry for them, not because their homes are broken but because they could do better If they had the room to roam and explore the rest of Canada. So excluding the native Gov officials,,, do the rest on Atapiskawat get to travel once a year? Go to Florida? Hit the spa,,, do something as simple as a bar hopping event for an evening? Wake up one morning and say, "Hey! It's time to take the family out for dinner and a movie, the kids have been so good this week" I don't know,,, I have never been there so someone tell me what it's really like. It bugs me that I think there are so many limits and we don't do more to allow them what all Canadians get to do in a week. I could be wrong maybe,,, but it didn't look like even their school was in any good shape. Is it true many don't get past grade eight? If so why?
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby zzontar » Feb 4th, 2013, 4:50 pm

It looks like non-native taxpayers are going to be working extra hard to support even more natives. Chief Spence's financial shadiness will already cost us over another $400,000. ca.news.yahoo.com/attawapiskat-audit-cost-taxpayers-411k-180939125.html
A third-party audit of the troubled Attawapiskat reserve cost the federal government more than $400,000, CBC News has learned.


... but will be a small drop in the bucket compared to what's coming:

http://www.globalnews.ca/feds+to+rule+o ... story.html

OTTAWA - Thanks to a single court decision, the federal government's responsibilities for Canada's Aboriginal Peoples have suddenly become a whole lot bigger.

After more than 13 years of legal wrangling, the Federal Court ruled on Tuesday that Metis and non-status Indians are indeed "Indians" under a section of the Constitution Act, and fall under federal jurisdiction.

The ruling helps to clarify the relationship between Ottawa and the hundreds of thousands of aboriginal people in Canada who are not affiliated with specific reserves and have essentially no access to First Nations programs, services and rights. The Congress of Aboriginal Peoples estimates their ranks at more than 600,000.

Legal experts expect the federal government to appeal the decision, partly because its implications are major - and complicated.
And will cost a fortune!
They argued they are entitled to some or all of the same rights and benefits as on-reserve First Nations members.

They say that includes access to the same health, education and other benefits Ottawa gives status Indians; being able to hunt, trap, fish and gather on public land; and the ability to negotiate and enter into agreements with the federal government.


Great, another 600,000 people to support. None of them have the excuse that they only know the way of the reserve and can't blend into society, but they'll take the money anyway. I guess we'll also find out whether the current status natives think an extra 600,000 people being allowed to hunt and fish will affect them, or if they just thought a fraction of that many people impacted their fishing and hunting way back because they were white.
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