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Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby SmokeOnTheWater » Feb 5th, 2013, 12:56 pm

cv23 wrote:Who did the Palestines take the land from before this?

You are right .. First Nations should take their land back.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby zzontar » Feb 5th, 2013, 1:10 pm

SmokeOnTheWater wrote:You are right .. First Nations should take their land back.


That's probably one of the first problems to address is the "me me me my land" issue. To have a massive country and not want any other race in it unless they pay up seems rather greedy and racist.
They say you can't believe everything they say.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Rwede » Feb 5th, 2013, 1:11 pm

Graham Adder wrote:There is a lot of planning and a lot of healing that needs to take place.



How much will that cost the taxpayers of Canada?
You are not stupid, I just think you have bad luck when thinking.

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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby j watson » Feb 5th, 2013, 4:16 pm

Graham Adder wrote:More of what in my deck?
What deck?
I'm not playing a game here son.
I have posted again after my "closing" because you and a few others need the schooling.
Your below average grade on the subject is embarrassing to a real Canadian and I feel the need to be your teacher.
Much like most First Nations teachers likely find trying to educate a bunch non-native narrow minded red-necks, I'm taking a few jabs and pokes from the kids that sit at the back and learn little. I can take that.
Nobody in here has what it takes to kick me down.
My pupils.
My students.
My class.


Well, teacher, can you explain what a rocket surgeon is? I will concede that your knowledge of first nations history is superior, at least to mine. But, other than your ability to form sentences well, I don't see you as any smarter or more intelligent than anyone else here. Still, as much as I hate to admit it, you do make some points worth considering.......which I will. Perhaps others would be more willing to consider them as well if you didn't treat everyone who disagrees with you as inferior.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby kibbs » Feb 5th, 2013, 4:20 pm

How much will that cost the taxpayers of Canada?

nothing they just want to take our children ,put them in a big longhouse and beat the white man out of them.you will get them back when the thought of being involved with western culture makes them ashamed .No just kidding they don't want money ,just to be heard and accepted for who they are.They want us to say we like ,round dances tee pees and your spiritual culture that makes the earth the most important thing to all of us.We want to help restore those things that our fathers took away .We want you to be our equal brothers and not our children.They want to change your mind.Can you afford that?It starts with the ending of aboriginal and northern affairs. We don't have white people and southern affairs do we?
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Graham Adder » Feb 5th, 2013, 4:23 pm

Rwede wrote:
How much will that cost the taxpayers of Canada?

Just like you and the rest of your flock, I haven't the foggiest.
I do know however, that you're going to pay it regardless of how much belly aching you do here.
Your true insignificance will shine brightly when you read about your expenditures against your will.
That's a cold fact that you MUST have a hard time swallowing.
Here...have a glass of milk.
It'll help to wash it down.

Sucks to be you, and in the end...it'll suck to be you.

My only hope is that things are done right for a change and no half wits get to steer the ferry across the channel like they have up 'til now.

There's a way to make it work, and with the "real" public being supportive as they are, we're going to see fantastic changes in our near future. It a shame there will be those of you that can't take part in that because of your blindness and misdirected anger.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Graham Adder » Feb 5th, 2013, 4:27 pm

j watson wrote:Well, teacher, can you explain what a rocket surgeon is?

:137:
it was a joke
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Roadster » Feb 5th, 2013, 4:59 pm

cv23 wrote:
:dyinglaughing: Yup, you are going to show and teach us all.

The only people in this whole equation who are truely racist are the natives. They do not want to be anyone's equal. No they feel they are superior to the rest of Canadians and deserve special treatment and privileges not because of their religion, the language they speak, the place they live, their age or even their political views but based only on their race.
Of course no solution can be found when one side is so deeply racist.

I have to wonder if I must agree with this now,,, even tho I didn't really think it before...
Who used the word Native first on this thread? Who called himself that?
GA I didn't know you were native, nor did I care, nor do I now. You are one of the posters on here like the rest of us and a fine one at that but you are accusing the rest of us of being racist, yet not one of us yet has used any bad words towards the natives, most of us want the natives to blend in with society and gain all the rights they Think they don't have now. Many of my friends have been native, especially when I was in school where probably a third was native. I did not hang at special corners where they shouldn't go.
As far as being called an Native at the bar,,, are you kidding me? I been called worse. Ya it happens because people are idiots after a few drinks and yet never did I see a native being singled out but I am sure it happens. My crowd got beat up in a bar in Ontario because we were military,,, several were taken to hospital on the base to be sewn up after some cuts on hands and arms and one in the eye happened. One was sent for some serious nerve damage repair to a city hospital and his career as an air plane mechanic could have been over. I never did see how he made out because I was being shipped out to a new posting shortly after that event. That's what we got for going down town for a drink during happy hour and it wasnt uncommon either. It's easy to get in a fight just because your words or your position makes someone mad or become a bully after a few beers get happening.
Meanwhile what many here are saying is we don't want to be the parent of many generations to come for an error made by many so many years ago. Back then people didn't think as we do now and we wouldn't have this happen like it did but it's what was back then and we have become a better country since then, even offering payment as an apology but how long can that go on? I think Respect has been given and they think it has not and they are demanding more of it, in many ways from many different reserves.
It truly is time the whole thing was laid on a table, all the native nations were given the same plan, an educational one first up and they were told to order up a chief to control everything, like our PM,,, just one and a few city office members were installed with an understanding what will be paid to them, according to size of each nation and need, no float ins,,, and money was doled directly to those needing it. Meanwhile it is also time we attempt to offer education like trades or better if they so choose. So eventually people are fending for their own and are a happier people with freedom to roam off them cold lands up in the north. How can we feel sorry for them if they choose that life? How can we help if we are not allowed on the grounds to help? To me it seems the money is coming as ordered but isn't making it to those it's intended for so are we the bad guy or is the chief the bad guy/gal? Documents from the government show the money went but after that there is none to say where it went sept for a few un named specialist who were supposedly hired to look at roofs and such,,, so GA,,, doesnt that bother you? Don't you want to see your people have the knowledge you have? Shouldn't they know what's supposed to come to them? Shouldnt they want more then that anyway? I am thinking you did, but that's just my opinion from what I know of you here.
The native people act to stand strong and say they could get through anything but then they keep dwelling on the past,,, sure we all took our knocks in our history somewhere and I don't disagree we should help but there is a time when help had proven to be a way of life and can't make things any better, ever.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby cv23 » Feb 5th, 2013, 5:36 pm

SmokeOnTheWater wrote:You are right .. First Nations should take their land back.

That should prove to be interesting for a people who didn't understand the concept of land ownership.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Captain Awesome » Feb 5th, 2013, 5:42 pm

SmokeOnTheWater wrote:You are right .. First Nations should take their land back.


Here's how map of Europe changed over the last 1000 years:

http://www.wimp.com/presentday/

The question is - who owes whom? Whose land is going back to whom? Who should be supporting who? Where are the resources going?
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby kibbs » Feb 5th, 2013, 6:04 pm

removed - Jennylives
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby jennylives » Feb 5th, 2013, 6:50 pm

I feel borders are unnatural and we will reach a point in our society where we will understand segmenting people, especially racially, just doesn't work. I support land stewardship over ownership aside from having a basic plot to live on for each family or individual to have individual control over. Our land belongs to all of us. We will continue to migrate and mingle as we always have in the future and we should be removing barriers to make it easier. Why should First Nations have to stay within reserves or fall under different laws and bylaws and why should non-First Nations stay out of them for the same reason? We are an evolving society and we have to adapt to changing demographics.

I feel we should be supporting all people, as best we can, in the variety of trials they face in our country. It's the Canadian way.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Roadster » Feb 5th, 2013, 7:18 pm

I agree Jenny, our land belongs to all of us, just like if the white man was here first and the natives came to fight for their share, it would now be everyones,,, it was fought for and someone won their piece of land like in any country so now we have to learn to share,,, we said our apologies many times over and there is no reason we can't get along as one now.

And hey,,, who knows if this land was or wasn't owned by someone else and the natives fought and stole from someone else to have what they had when white man got here,,, suggestion are there,,, can we prove there was not another group before the natives arrived? You can't be 100% sure they were actually here first,,, that's just what the history books show.
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby grammafreddy » Feb 5th, 2013, 7:44 pm

grammafreddy wrote:Has anyone read the Royal Commission on Aboriginal People document? Have they studied the recommendations that came from that?
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Re: Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

Postby Graham Adder » Feb 6th, 2013, 12:04 am

My apologies for a long post, but there is a lot to answer to.

Roadster wrote:GA ...You are one of the posters on here like the rest of us and <snip> you are accusing the rest of us of being racist, yet not one of us yet has used any bad words towards the natives,

I'm not pointing fingers at who I am referring to specifically, but I can tell you this:
When someone wants an entire race to be eradicated via tanks, I think that might be a racist.
When someone wants to effectively starve out a race of people by shutting off all funding to them when they have no other viable means of support, that might be a racist.
When someone has nothing supportive to speak about a race, and only tosses stereotypes and demeaning descriptors, that might just be...a racist.

Roadster wrote:and most of us want the natives to blend in with society and gain all the rights they Think they don't have now.

I don't think you recognize however, that most First Nations also want to blend in as you say and most recognize that our rights are not balanced with where we need to be. It is a select few, just as is the case with the negativity within these pages that do not want the same thing. Luckily, the majority also recognize that it's going to be a slow, and unfortunately expensive fix to get everyone there.

Roadster wrote:As far as being called an Native at the bar,,, are you kidding me? I been called worse. Ya it happens because people are idiots after a few drinks and yet never did I see a native being singled out but I am sure it happens.

Yeah, it happens. I didn't intend to make that seem like a big deal. I can roll with that easily. I was just giving it as an example of racism I have witnessed first hand. It's lame...really.

Roadster wrote:Meanwhile what many here are saying is we don't want to be the parent of many generations to come for an error made by many so many years ago. Back then people didn't think as we do now and we wouldn't have this happen like it did but it's what was back then and we have become a better country since then, even offering payment as an apology but how long can that go on? I think Respect has been given and they think it has not and they are demanding more of it, in many ways from many different reserves.

I am sure nobody wants to feel they are a parent for many generations to come for an error made many years ago. I too, hope there is a solid plan set into motion SOON that delivers on all requirements effectively and respectfully so we can all get along as we should be. Together...progressively.
I'm not so sure about your statements that we have become a better country and that we wouldn't do such things now. I also am not sure what you mean by payment. If you intend to answer to either of those, please...do answer carefully. Before you consider "payment", also consider what was "taken". Before stating that we have become a better country and wouldn't do such things, please do consider that similar offenses still do happen today. It's disgusting, disturbing and unacceptable...but it's true.

Roadster wrote:It truly is time the whole thing was laid on a table, all the native nations were given the same plan, an educational one first up and they were told to order up a chief to control everything, like our PM,,, just one and a few city office members were installed with an understanding what will be paid to them, according to size of each nation and need, no float ins,,, and money was doled directly to those needing it.

I agree it's time for some laying upon the table. I'm not going to pretend to know what will work for all, but I do agree some careful, effective planning is required. I also think transparency should be a new catch phrase.

Roadster wrote:Meanwhile it is also time we attempt to offer education like trades or better if they so choose. So eventually people are fending for their own and are a happier people with freedom to roam off them cold lands up in the north.

Education is key. I can certainly get onside with this line of thinking.

Roadster wrote:How can we feel sorry for them if they choose that life?

Feel empathy if anything. Really try hard to imagine what their core values and such have been. We are not all developed the same. Some have been raised with NO positive influences, positive role models, support or any of the staples we took for granted growing up. Sure, everyone has their tough stories, but until we really see and feel first hand, we can only imagine. My suggestion is that when you imagine...imagine with empathy.

Roadster wrote:How can we help if we are not allowed on the grounds to help?

This takes trust. Again just imagine the trust issues not only felt as individuals...but again...influences...core...generations.

Roadster wrote:To me it seems the money is coming as ordered but isn't making it to those it's intended for so are we the bad guy or is the chief the bad guy/gal?

Completely case specific, but I think in many cases BOTH have a lot to answer for.

Roadster wrote:Documents from the government show the money went but after that there is none to say where it went sept for a few un named specialist who were supposedly hired to look at roofs and such,,, so GA,,, doesnt that bother you?

You bet it does. OMG does it! I'm not a spence fan. I refuse to capitalize her last name. That's a differnt subject we can try one day, but safe to say I am definitely bothered by thieves of ANY race.

Roadster wrote:Don't you want to see your people have the knowledge you have? Shouldn't they know what's supposed to come to them? Shouldnt they want more then that anyway? I am thinking you did, but that's just my opinion from what I know of you here.

Yeses.
Roadster wrote:The native people act to stand strong and say they could get through anything but then they keep dwelling on the past,,, sure we all took our knocks in our history somewhere and I don't disagree we should help but there is a time when help had proven to be a way of life and can't make things any better, ever.

It's hard not to generalize, but the truth is that's what this is. Not all "natives" dwell in the past. The majority are very forward thinking, progressive and imaginative people that strive within strict confines to find a means to an end.
The "help" that was "offered" was no help.
That "help" has created more hardship and caused more long term damages than any "war" with the First Nations ever did.
That's the truth.
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