Retirees - why stay in Canada instead of going eleswhere?

[Hermes]

Serious question. This question is targeted to those of you who like to travel.

I have explored, sojourned and worked overseas a lot. Based on those journeys I prefer most other places (Vietnam, Thailand, Cuba, Nepal) to anywhere in Canada so far, but am considering the Okanagan as a compromise home base. But life is going to be a pinch because I can't afford to eat out here, nor can I take the train (which I much prefer to bus or flying. BTW, 60+ you get a 30% discount on India Rail). Sometimes speaking foreign languages tires me out, though I still want to check out Fiji and Turkey. The USA is cheaper and it doesn't take a billion liters of gas to get between major cities (I love Louisiana and Texas), Asia is more exotic (haven't gotten to Mongolia and Sri Lanka yet), Africa more adventurous (I went to Kenya two weeks after the Nairobi mall bombing). I just don't see the big appeal in Canada. Safety and courtesy only go so far. Some people tell me they need to be in a basically Christian place - well, Philippines and Korea are. Or they want safety - Japan is very safe. You want English - try Ghana or Malaysia. Medical care? Can't beat Bombay doctors -- no queue and top notch English.

The only reasons I intend to spend six months in Canada are...

1. GIS
2. Health insurance for serious issues
3. Public libraries

That's it. Basically anyway.

For a person on a low income without a lot of savings the only other reasons I can think of for why they would want to spend more than 183 days in Canada are family or job. But for singles who like to travel, why stay in Canada? Some readers get upset, as if I am not flag waving enough. I don't get it. Really. I actually like Canada... for 3 weeks.

[Fancy]

Think you already mentioned the reasons why people stay in Canada (family). Wouldn't be jobs if they are already retired. Lots to see and do in Canada year round (can golf and ski on same day, fish and hunt, camp and see wildlife, mountains and mountain lakes). East coast has a lot to offer and cheaper to live. Why the Okanagan as opposed to Ontario?

[Btfsplck]

Canada is a great country and I am happy that it has been my home for most of my life. That said, Canada is crazy expensive compared to most of the world. Once the pension cheques start coming in why stay here and spend it just to survive when you can get much more value when out of country.
Our plan upon retirement is to be out of country as much as possible. Not because we don't like Canada, but because we want to see places we've yet to travel to and the great value.
I guess some people never get the travel bug and are content to stay and pay. Fear of other places, cultures, and languages can also factor into it as well.

[Fancy]

Some people enjoy their staycations, have summer places nearby and lots of family and friends to enjoy their time with.

[Smurf]

We have traveled a little bit, not like you seem to. Mostly North America and Europe. Have seen many places we love and would like to live in for a while but not for an extended period of say years. We don't really care for crowds so although it is fine to visit it does take away a lot of places for more than short periods. We would both like to see the places you have been but only for a short time. We hope in the future to see more of them but probably more tour type trips than self guided off the beaten path like we prefer. no longer much for long stints with backpacks and whatever in tow.


We have to admit as we grow older we appreciate having family and free medical close by. Having recently gone through a hip replacement we certainly learned the value of both. We have also seen people have problems away from home and it can be difficult if you don't have help for even just little things like frequent rides to the doctor. Although we had family who helped a lot in the beginning there was good care available here in case of need.

I believe it is a persons own decision as to what they require and what they can live with. We can get together with other couples who go south for the winter and seldom agree with the best place to go in the same state. So many things like just the food an be a major thing for some people. One thing we have considered many time is full time RV. It does restrict you to say the US and Canada but when you get bored with a place you just move. It is a very cheap comfortable way to live in comfort as long as you are able to drive tow or whatever your choice of RV. You can move frequently visiting family or friends or just seeing new places and making new friends.

All in all we would like to go anywhere but in the end we want the security of a home base somewhere we want to be in case something major happens. So far in our retirement of over 17 years that choice has been the Okanagan.

[jimmy4321]

It always annoyed me how many choose to blow their cash outside of Canada cause life is sooo much better elsewhere yet will come back for their $100k heart surgeries or cancer treatments or whatever other costly ailments.
Maybe i'm missing how it comes back around to Canada but people gripe alot of our medical system but sure as hell play the system to keep their benefits.

[Smurf]

Just like many from other countries keep their citizenship and collect pensions etc while living in Canada and spending their money, pensions etc here. I earned my living here and I still pay all my taxes etc here. I just enjoy a winter without snow where I can spend my days outside in the sun in shorts. I worked hard, lots of times two jobs at a time and saved for this. I am going to enjoy it to it's fullest. I will travel, see and learn new things as long as I am capable.

[Hassel99]

It always annoyed me how many choose to blow their cash outside of Canada cause life is sooo much better elsewhere yet will come back for their $100k heart surgeries or cancer treatments or whatever other costly ailments.
Maybe i'm missing how it comes back around to Canada but people gripe alot of our medical system but sure as hell play the system to keep their benefits.

/shrug, some people just don't like winter.

[jimmy4321]

Fair enough lol

[Hermes]

Smurf wrote: "One thing we have considered many time is full time RV. It does restrict you to say the US and Canada but when you get bored with a place you just move. It is a very cheap comfortable way to live in comfort as long as you are able to drive tow or whatever your choice of RV."

I wish you and your partner well RVing around the continent. However, my unsolicited advice is that you talk to lots of people who have done this. A guy I knew was living in his RV with his wife and he wouldn't even sell me his vehicle, because he said that unless you do your own mechanical repairs it really adds up. Plus, it is cheaper to stay in motels.

I wish I could RV, but I am a mechanical moron. And the price of petrol would kill me if I travelled in anything more than a VW van. I miss sleeping in the desert though!

[Smurf]

You are definitely right that it can be expensive if you use it as a vehicle to travel steady. However used properly it is far cheaper than hotels or motels. To begin with we are members of a couple of travel clubs and also had a bit of luck. Years back we won a free membership to a chain of campgrounds in Washington at the Abbotsford RV show. The base membership if you have to buy it is actually very cheap if you use it. This membership gave us a membership to Coast to Coast which opens up a huge number of quality campgrounds for as low as $10.00 a night for limited stays, usually one week. Two years ago we went to the island to visit our son in Langford and also traveled up island to Nanaimo. We used coast to coast all the way and saved a fortune over hotels even after paying for a large motorhome towing a vehicle both ways on the ferry. 3 weeks plus travel days, 25 nights in total $250.00 plus taxes. The additional savings on cooking many of your own meals made it a very cheap trip. If you plan on driving steady and paying regular prices for campgrounds it can get very expensive.

There is a new campground in Yuma which has been open for about 2 years. This coming winter it costs $1916.00 or 6 months including taxes but you do pay your own Hydro which can be a bit expensive if you use a lot.

RVing full time is a lifestyle and it can be as cheap or as expensive as you want. You can stay in the desert around Yuma, no services for something like a $100.00 for the winter. You would be amazed at how many people with good self contained RV's do it.

I won't argue that it could get expensive if you can't do at least some of your own basic maintenance.

[Hermes]

Smurf,

Thank you for your experienced opinion. Nice to hear of your successes.

Aside from the travel aspect why else do you go south? I have travelled for much of my life and being in a new place is not as important to me as it was before. Being in a *cheaper place* is though!

If you compare the cost of living are either of the following statements true?

It is cheaper/better value (please explain) to...

1. Be settled (e.g. monthly rental) in the USA versus Canada

2. Be RVing (petrol and nightly rental prices) in USA versus Canada

[OldIslander]

We have traveled a little bit, not like you seem to. Mostly North America and Europe. --- snip ----

Smurf, it's spooky how closely your thoughts match ours. Except we chose Victoria -- even though I was born and raised in the Okanagan -- and you've been retired a few years more than us.

We've researched living in another country for a few years, but have family base here including a passel of grandkids, that we're simply not willing to give up. So we go to warm places for a month every winter, just to burn the Victoria mildew of our tired old carcasses , and then back home to the monsoons till our summer arrives. I love to grumble and whine about things as much as the next person, but it's a pretty good life...!

[WalkAbout24]

I live in SE Asia from November to April and the Okanagan the rest of the year. This provides me with the best of both worlds, as summer in Canada is hard to beat, but I no longer enjoy the winter cold.

The thing is, you get what you pay for. SE Asia can be a lot cheaper than living in Canada, but you have a lower standard of living. Sure, you live like a prince compared to the locals, but the locals are living in nippa huts and eating fish and rice three meals a day. You lifestyle is better than that, but it's not as comfortable as your own home. Typically you're living in one or two rooms, sparsely furnished with lower grade furniture. The roads are bad, the smog is terrible, the food is often poor and you can't get the kinds of food you may prefer.

The upside is that as a westerner you're pretty much left alone, have a lot of personal freedom, it's hot and things are cheap.

The negative though is that there are a LOT of alcoholics in the expat communities in SE Asia. There aren't the amenities that you have in Canada and so drinking is the most common way to socialize. Way too many westerners start drinking at 8:30 in the morning, every single day. It's not a pretty sight.

The other negative is the isolation. You're a long way from friends and family and you can be dead a long time before anyone notices you're missing. Just last week a Norwegian guy hanged himself in his apartment here. He just got so lonely he couldn't take it anymore.

So, there are pluses to Snowbirding, but I don't think I'd leave Canada full time.

[Hermes]

Walkabout knows what he is talking about. Two examples...

"The negative though is that there are a LOT of alcoholics in the expat communities in SE Asia."
Which is why (in addition to violent crime level, not vegetarian-friendly and it being too Christian for me) I will not again visit, let alone retire half-time to the Philippines. The level of boozing in RP is higher even than in Cambodia.

"Just last week a Norwegian guy hanged himself in his apartment here."
I think it is useful to be aware that many (most?) of the expats in SEA are not typical Canadians. Well, let me just speak for myself - *I am not*. There are a lot of eccentrics and people who just don't fit in back home. I have lost numerous friends to drug addiction and other self-destructive behaviour because, as Walkabout writes, you have a lot of personal freedom as an outsider in the third world.

Of course it depends what country and more specifically what city/town you live in, but regarding the statement "roads are bad, the smog is terrible, the food is often poor", I think really depends where you are in Southeast Asia. There are places where the roads and food is much better than Canada -- for my taste anyway. Two examples - Singapore for roads (and public transit) and Malaysia for food. And for my taste South and East Asia, especially India and Taiwan - well, they have the best food in the world.

And there is more... When I first returned from Thailand in 1989 I found Vancouver 'cold' in both senses. Clean, orderly and safe but wet, sparse, and impersonal. No street life! Whereas almost 24 hours in Bangkok you can interact with ladies selling orange juice, and deep fried bananas from street carts. Even in Singapore to some extent with its Chinese, Malaya and South Indian food courts. I just find Canada too Germanic, too regimented.

Another huge advantage (and I am not talking about 'direct financial incentive') while women just 15 years younger than myself rarely give me the time of day in BC, it is very different in Southeast Asia. I can have a conversation and even flirt when women young enough to be my grand-daughter.

The pluses Walkabout mentions are right on.