Toronto's First Afrocentric School....

[Decoy Doctorpus]

I know this is all serious and whatnot and everyone is getting their knickers in a twist but stop for a moment. The word 'afrocentric', that's a funny word, It makes me think of a school that only accepts kids with huge afros.

[hernanday]

I know that this was a huge debate back east before it opened, and I am curious on your thoughts. Do you think segregated schools are inclusionary to ethnic groups or do you think they will have a negative impact and increase the race issues experienced in some of the larger Canadian cities, namely Toronto or Montreal for example.

Why are you calling the school segregated? segregation /=/ seperation on equal terms. We don't call french and roman catholic schools segregation or gender based schools or aboriginal schools or all the cultural schools that do we?

Toronto is a very segregated cities. The four major races live in 4 seperate parts of the city and generally interact little. There are exceptions of course. But this school will solve alot of problems.

The current school system was not designed for black culture, which is very different than white western european culture. The culture of white and blacks are different like the culture of italian roman catholic, or french roman catholics or protestants are different from the respective majority cultures.

When black students have a better understanding of their own culture and pride in themselves they will be able to better work with diverse cultures, including whites, than when they are put into "integrated" schools with a white teacher who acts as a strict disciplinary and reminds them of the horrors of colonialism and slavery and jim crow. Black students who have no pride and no knowledge of their own history, will more likely grow to ignorant and dislike other cultures.

[hernanday]

Isnt Canada suppost to be multicultural? Can anyone go to these schools or just people of African decent?

How does this bring people together? Seems to me that immigrants allready have enough problems being that classic immigration patterns show that cultural groups stick together, live in the same area, and stay in their social circles. Makes it hard to assimaliate, harder to adapt.

I saw the interviews with the kids that were going to that school. They all quoted the line "...we are going to learn about all different cultures, it will be fun..." - but its a AFRICAN school. I cant see them spending lots of time learning about Louis Riel and Canadian history, other than whats is mandated by the education board or whatever. I went to Catholic school and we were taught about all other world religions...for about 1/2 a hour, then we stuck with Catholic dogma.

Remindes me of the USA and trying to incorperate "ebonics" into english classes...which is bascially street slang in black neighbourhoods. Being that Im Italian, a person might argue that we should teach Italians how to talk with their hands in school!

When my family immigrated to Canada in the 70's, my grandparents tryed very hard to make sure the new generation was as Canadian as possible without loosing our own culture and traditions. The culture and traditions were taught by the family, being Canadian was taught by social groups and the schools.

While I agree there are many different specialty schools (I dont think a religious school is the same as a culture/race school) out there, I dont think this is the direction we should be taking. We should all get along, and all mix.

Seems like its just creating walls instead of bridges.

Anyone can go, but so far no whites have CHOSEN to enroll. Why should they learn Louis Riel, its not them, its not their culture, they aren't white and never will be, those old dead white guys will never have ANY relevance to a young black child in the 21st century canada. The cultures are largely seperated in Toronto already. No one wants to integrate and its our national policy of multiculturalism to not integrate, we don't have a melting pot, we are not america. Italians have their own school, I know, I went to one, they teach Italian as second language, all the courses are taught with an italian twist and some roman or italian is tied into every class lesson they are called roman catholic schools.

You are white. If you cannot understand that it makes you immune from anti-black discrimination then you must suffer a serious condition. A religion is a set of beliefs, so is a culture, they are all the same. We don't all get along, we don't all mix, we voluntarily choose to surround ourselves with people who look like us, speak like us and so on. In North America we have a saying called a a very big fence makes a very good neighbour.

Whites and blacks for the most part have very different cultures and will not and do not get along. Its not that whites are bad or all blacks are bad its just the truth. We should simply accept we have different cultures and agree to not annoy each other or get in each others way.

White parents don't wwant to send their kid to a school with too many black students and we all know the reason why. We need to stop pretending that we all getalong when we don't. Its ok to separate yourself from people who you will never get along with. Its better than fighting constantly which is unhealthy for all races/cultures.

[hernanday]

remember posting something about this when I got wind of it. I understand the reasoning but I question the direction it will take society. If this school is a complete success, it's premise will be challenged.
Isn't the school's success also its premise? To: "combat the disproportionately high dropout rate among black students in the Toronto school system."

I'm really not seeing the "wall" these types of schools put in place. We have a myriad of these 'speciality' schools, had them for over a hundred years, I've seen no evidence that they've created a "wall" or anything negative for that matter.

I think that "the disproportionately high dropout rate among black students in the Toronto school system" has nothing to do with the lack of African culture education that black kids are getting.

Poverty, gangs, cultural icolation and lure of criminal life/profits probably play into it alot more. Social problems, not culture problems. Infact, one could say that this school encourages cultural icolation rather than fixing it.

Africa is a continent not a country. The cultural variety represented within Africa is vast. Toronto also has a very high population of Jamacian and Caribbean people. What is the goal of this school?

These are stereotypes that are anti black, its like saying jews are rich because they control the world and are greedy, but because you have the benefit of going to italian school it is easy to sit back and say culture doesn't matter when your culture is catered to. And ask what makes black children susceptible to poverty, gangs, cultural isolation and criminal lifestyles. It is a school system that tells them they are nothing and ignores their history and their races and cultural achievements. The message black students learn quickly is you don't matter. And when you are taught that, you'll latch onto anything. Even being a criminal with a gold chain is better than NOTHING.

The goal of the school is to give the black students a chance they'd never have in the white mainstream system which is anti-black. The white british style school system has failed them horribly.

[hernanday]

Allright here we go again with the very people that complain about prejudism discriminating against every one else by opening a facility like this. Hey lets just start a whiteys only school so us whiteys can learn about fellow whiteys or maybe lets have honky heritage days for once instead of black achievement awards. Better yet lets do the grammys for whitey only and no let african americans through the door. Through our own doing we have let the pendulum swing way too far in the case of prejudism and discrimination. Oh hang on just gotta give my wife the keys so she can go to the womens only drug store before going to the womens only gym.

Has it ever occured to you they are tired of white and non-black students and white teachers and white board members being racist to them and getting away with it, so they'll open their own school system so they don't have to "complain about prejudism discriminating against every one". Its not only whites, the indians come from a country with a cast system that says blacks and ark skin is bad, the latinos same thing, the asians and arabs also hate dark skin people and so do the europeans in general so as a black person in a school you are going to a place where you are universally hated by just about everyone you come into contact with who doesn't look like you. In such a system it is just better to have your own school than to be constantly trying to convince a white/non-black person (who may often be racist themself) that some other student or principal etc is discriminating.

Whites have their own schools, protestant schools, catholic schools, french catholic, roman catholic schools and the english school systems. These systems were created by whites, for whites of british descent and it reflects their white values. I am not even criticising them for doing it because it doesn't make sense to expect them to create any other style system. Why would a white british group create a system for blacks. Do you realize that makes no sense? Do people in Korea create a system for white british? No.

All I am saying is we are suppose to have this multicultural society where the different cultures should all get a fair shake. The whites and variouss other non-black cultures have their own schools and universities the blacks should have their own school and school systems.

The grammy awards and many of those awards system are oftenheavily biased in favour of whites. and as far as I know, every single heritage day or national holiday celebrates a white man. I know of no national holidays in canada for black men.

[Ken7]

I know that this was a huge debate back east before it opened, and I am curious on your thoughts. Do you think segregated schools are inclusionary to ethnic groups or do you think they will have a negative impact and increase the race issues experienced in some of the larger Canadian cities, namely Toronto or Montreal for example.

I think there should not be a school such as this. For years it has been a battle to all races to be equal, now were going backwards?? What next!

[hernanday]

I know that this was a huge debate back east before it opened, and I am curious on your thoughts. Do you think segregated schools are inclusionary to ethnic groups or do you think they will have a negative impact and increase the race issues experienced in some of the larger Canadian cities, namely Toronto or Montreal for example


I think there should not be a school such as this. For years it has been a battle to all races to be equal, now were going backwards?? What next!

So the british have a school, the french have a school, the italians, ukranians, gays, aboriginals, protestants, catholics, jews, muslims, hindus and buddhist, chinese indians all have schools (and the chinese have an entire university at this point maybe 3-4). So it is equality that the blacks have nothing and be perpetual minorities wherever they go and excluded by the majority culture.

Wakeup call. Its not just whites who dislike dark skin people. Indians have a caste and East asians and arabs are on average 5 x more racist than the average white Canadian. Some of those cultures like chinese and koreans have been completly brain washed to hate dark skinned asians never mind blacks.

And if you think black students have ever been treated as equals at any of these schools you are sorely mistaken. You have to either conclude that 100 black families who chose to send their kids to this program and the hundreds of thousands of more blacks who support it were all having simultaneous delusions along with the 75% of blacks who report to stats can they experience discrimination frequently. Or maybe there really is a racial problem in the "mainstream" white majority and non-black majority schools that the schools are not designed to address for various reasons.

Had blacks been given a fair shake in these schools to begin with, there would never have been a need for them in the first place.

Why would a black parent "go backwards" to put their kid into a bad school on purpose? No parents remove their kids from the bad anti-black mainstream white power schools into an afrocentric program where they won't get called racial slurs by teachers and principals and pupils and won't have nooses hung from their lockers and be traumatized at an early age.

[ValB58]

I wonder if it would be okay to have an all "white" school?

Maybe they could call it "50 Shades of Pink"?
They could teach LAW.

[hernanday]

I wonder if it would be okay to have an all "white" school?

Maybe they could call it "50 Shades of Pink"?
They could teach LAW.

I am under the impression they have several all white schools
-roman catholic
-french roman catholic
-ukranian catholic
-protestants
-english school system

Plus there is an implicit assumption that mainstream = white europeans in canada
So when we speak of the mainstream system we speak of a white power school

[FreeRights]

I'm assuming that this is a private school and tax dollars do not contribute to it?

[FreeRights]

I am under the impression they have several all white schools
-roman catholic
-french roman catholic
-ukranian catholic
-protestants
-english school system

Plus there is an implicit assumption that mainstream = white europeans in canada
So when we speak of the mainstream system we speak of a white power school

Not true. Granted, yes, private Catholic schools are predominantly white, I think it has more to do with the finances required to go to that school rather than them only accepting white people.

[hernanday]

Not true. Granted, yes, private Catholic schools are predominantly white, I think it has more to do with the finances required to go to that school rather than them only accepting white people.

We aren't speaking about private schools here. In Ontario these schools (listed originally) are more or less public and the private school tuition (usually jew and muslim schools) can usually get re-imbursed through taxes up to $7000 per student.

Lets take this a step back. there is considerable confusion here. Many posters are implying or calling it an all black school. This is not the case. They cannot stop a white person from attending anymore than the white french schools or white power catholic or ukranian schools can stop non-whites from attending, which is generally not the case.

By the definition in which posters call an africentric school all black, by that same token you'd be forced to call the eurocentrick schools all white to apply the standard fairly.

[hernanday]

I'm assuming that this is a private school and tax dollars do not contribute to it?

Nope, in Ontario we have a wide variety of specialty schools within the government system. The rules pretty much permit any group of at least 10 parents to open their own cultural/speciality school program so long as they can get at least 40 students to enroll within a year and get approval from the board. As such in the city of toronto there are over 70+ specialty/ cultural schools all of whom receive government funding.

This is done because the traditionally liberal voters (toronto is a liberal city) all want specialty schools. The irish > protestant schools, the italians > catholic schools, the ukranians, the french> ukranian and french catholic schools, the english > english school board, and so on and so forth. The Chinese and Indians already have their own schools as well. The blacks were actually the only major group left who didn't have a school system, even the gays and aboriginals (who are under 1% of our population here) have schools. Greeks are just 2% and have multiple public schools that are greek-centric. And blacks are almost 10% and didn't have one until the africentric. platonas, st. demetrios and aristotelis recognized school, these are greek centric schools named after greek people for the greek community and they are publicly funded and teach greek etc.

The only exception are religious schools a couple of religious schools like jews, christians (non-catholics) who can't get approval because there are people who cringe at publicly funded religious schools (the cahtolic one is already kind of controversial and no one wants the jews and christians to get them because they fear the muslims will get a sharia one).

As for why they permit this. I suspect because the liberal voting blocks all want them. And if they didn't then they'd all become private schools and the public school would lose most their students and funding is on a per student basis. And then parents would demand a voucher system. And if the majority of parents demand a voucher system. Then there isn't really any much difference here except that the board would lose their job and have to close a bunch of schools. Which is a lose lose for everyone, especially the board of directors and the trustees whose job all depend on having as many students as possible.

[FreeRights]

Nope, in Ontario we have a wide variety of specialty schools within the government system. The rules pretty much permit any group of at least 10 parents to open their own cultural/speciality school program so long as they can get at least 40 students to enroll within a year and get approval from the board. As such in the city of toronto there are over 70+ specialty/ cultural schools all of whom receive government funding.

This is done because the traditionally liberal voters (toronto is a liberal city) all want specialty schools. The irish > protestant schools, the italians > catholic schools, the ukranians, the french> ukranian and french catholic schools, the english > english school board, and so on and so forth. The Chinese and Indians already have their own schools as well. The blacks were actually the only major group left who didn't have a school system, even the gays and aboriginals (who are under 1% of our population here) have schools. Greeks are just 2% and have multiple public schools that are greek-centric. And blacks are almost 10% and didn't have one until the africentric. platonas, st. demetrios and aristotelis recognized school, these are greek centric schools named after greek people for the greek community and they are publicly funded and teach greek etc.

The only exception are religious schools a couple of religious schools like jews, christians (non-catholics) who can't get approval because there are people who cringe at publicly funded religious schools (the cahtolic one is already kind of controversial and no one wants the jews and christians to get them because they fear the muslims will get a sharia one).

As for why they permit this. I suspect because the liberal voting blocks all want them. And if they didn't then they'd all become private schools and the public school would lose most their students and funding is on a per student basis. And then parents would demand a voucher system. And if the majority of parents demand a voucher system. Then there isn't really any much difference here except that the board would lose their job and have to close a bunch of schools. Which is a lose lose for everyone, especially the board of directors and the trustees whose job all depend on having as many students as possible.

Thanks for the info. If true, that is an absolutely atrocious policy.

I'm not as against an afrocentric school as I am against pretty much any school there that specifically caters to a singular group of people. From day one, kids should be learning about inclusion and community; not segregation and separation.

[hernanday]

Thanks for the info. If true, that is an absolutely atrocious policy.

I'm not as against an afrocentric school as I am against pretty much any school there that specifically caters to a singular group of people. From day one, kids should be learning about inclusion and community; not segregation and separation.

Perhaps, but no one has an incentive to dismantle it. The principals, board workers, and even the director's pay and "power" is all determined by how many students they have. Thus the system is encouraged to be as broad as possible to stem the tide of private schools sucking off students. The parents don't want to pay up front the private school tuition. Even the provincial government prefers public schools because they get to request more federal dollars for it and the city gets to request more provincial money for it. So every bureacrat involved benefits from the system being big as possible. If I am a super-intendant of 15000 students shouldn't my pay be hire than the guy in farts ville who is seeing over just 5000 students?

As for the second part of your statement. When we step back and look at this objectively. We begin to see there isn't a system that doesn't cater to a singular group of people. Because if we tried to make a system for everyone, we'd quickly realize in our diverse city there aren't enough hours in a day to teach female, male, africentric, eurcentric, greek centric, russian, catholic, lgbt centric etc type program. and then the gay and catholic centric probably conflict as much as the africentric and eurocentric. So you instead would reallize you can't serve our 100+ ethnic groups this way and naturally default to serving the majority culture/ethnic group = white british descendant people.

I know of no country nor program that could possible include or cater to a city as diverse as Toronto. I don't think you could roll all 70+ speciality programs into one. In order to learn inclusion, you have to first be in the classroom. These kids in the specialty schools wouldn't even BE THERE mentally or physically if it was a different system.