Russians testing Canadian airspace

[Pesky]

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010 ... 74181.html

OTTAWA - Canadian fighter jets scrambled to repel Russian bombers that made several attempts to probe Canadian airspace on Wednesday.

QMI Agency has learned that two CF-18s took off from CFB Bagotville to intercept two TU-95 long range bombers about 463 km east of Goose Bay, N.L.

Attempts by Russia to test Canadian airspace have been going on since 2007; military and intelligence analysts tell QMI Agency the frequency has been increasing since then, but one senior official described Wednesday's event as "not the usual s--t."

"The response as always was a rapid, effective deterrent," Defence Minister Peter MacKay told QMI Agency.

"They were in the buffer zone," said MacKay, stressing that although the planes did not enter Canada's sovereign airspace, the bombers did come inside the 300 nautical mile zone that Canada claims.

"They did not give us any advance notice," said MacKay, adding that NORAD fighter jets have intercepted between 12 and 18 Russian bombers per year since 2007. After the CF-18s made contact with the Russians the pilots shadowed them until the bombers turned northeast and headed out of Canadian airspace.


The TU-95 bomber, known as the Bear, is capable of carrying nuclear weapons and may have been loaded with warheads on this trip. One military analyst tells QMI Agency the Russians have been known to fly with nukes on board just to flex their muscle and prove to the world they are still a powerful country.

"We certainly weren't aware of what if any weapons were on board," said MacKay.

Canada is in a race with Russia and other Arctic nations to lay claim to the frozen territory that may hold untold treasures.

Geologists believe the Arctic shelf holds vast stores of oil, natural gas, diamonds, gold and minerals. A 2007 Russian intelligence report predicted that conflict with other Arctic nations is a distinct possibility, including military action "in a competition for resources." The United States, Norway, and Denmark (through Greenland) also lay claim to portions of the Arctic seabed based on their coastal waters.

China, which does not have an Arctic coast, has sent icebreakers and ships into the Arctic Ocean. A Chinese admiral said earlier this year since China has 20% of the world's population, they should have 20% of Arctic resources.

The incursion into Canadian airspace also comes as debate rages over whether Canada needs the next generation of fighter jets to replace the nearly 30-year-old CF 18s. The Harper government has committed to buying 65 F-35 stealth fighters at a cost of $9 billion. Critics have said such Cold War-type jets are no longer needed.

Rob Huebert of the University of Calgary's Centre for Military and Strategic Studies tells QMI Agency the Canadian Air Force needs to upgrade its fleet now that Russia is upgrading its bombers.

"The mere fact that the Russians are building the next generation of bombers means that we need something or we need to accept that the Americans will do it for us," Huebert said.

"This is about a Russian military resurgence, the Russians asserting their authority in the north," military analyst Mercedes Stephenson told QMI Agency.

Stephenson says that after the Cold War ended the Russian military was in a shambles but the last few years have seen a lot of money poured into restoring past glories, particularly in the air force.

Asked if he was playing up this Russian incursion to boost support for the F-35 purchase, MacKay said no.

"Surely even the most cynical, partisan person would not suggest that we engineered the visit of a Russian bomber to boost support for our air force," said MacKay.

[Captain Awesome]

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/07/30/14874181.html

"Surely even the most cynical, partisan person would not suggest that we engineered the visit of a Russian bomber to boost support for our air force," said MacKay.

That would be hard to organize.

"- Hey, Russkies, do you mind flexing some muscles over here, we're trying to get our defense budget beefed up."

[rideforever]

This is kinda creepy. I've never felt potential for war on Canadian soil like this before, however small that potential may be. Even China's trying to get in on it, gives me the image of leaders around the world drooling and sharpening their teeth.

Not sure if they are pandering to the media for support or not, but they could be.

Don't need to ask the russian's to come here, they already seem to do it monthly. All they need to do is claim the usually *bleep* is all of a sudden different and something to worry about.

one senior official described Wednesday's event as "not the usual s--t."

[Pesky]

China is the one that really scares me given they have no geographical claim unlike other countries with borders to the North, but they have a lot of military and economic might. When it comes down to it, there really is nothing Canada can do to stop other countries from going in, drilling, and extracting resources - what are we going to do? Fight them with our 35 planes? Not going to happen. We need to pick a side to help defend our rights, and the only logical one is the US, as I don't see Russia or China giving a rat's behind about Canada getting one penny out of any resources buried under the frozen tundra up there. The US might not either, but at least there is a diplomatic relationship with them and a long history of friendship.

[tsu]

The United States is already involved since they have a geographical claim to everything off the coast of Alaska.

[rideforever]

I've never thought of it in the way China states it "we have 20% of world population so should get 20% of previously unclaimed resources". But that's actually a reasonable arguement. Whether it's technically 'previously unclaimed' or not, is another question.

[Pesky]

I've never thought of it in the way China states it "we have 20% of world population so should get 20% of previously unclaimed resources". But that's actually a reasonable arguement. Whether it's technically 'previously unclaimed' or not, is another question.

They can have the resources, as long as they pay for them.

[Captain Awesome]

The US might not either, but at least there is a diplomatic relationship with them and a long history of friendship.

Canada has no chance of standing up to Russia. The only way to stand against them is get US on our side, and for that we'd have to give up a lion's share of resources.

[rideforever]

I've never thought of it in the way China states it "we have 20% of world population so should get 20% of previously unclaimed resources". But that's actually a reasonable arguement. Whether it's technically 'previously unclaimed' or not, is another question.

They can have the resources, as long as they pay for them.

Pay who? who owns them now? does the fact that our territory is close mean it's partially ours?

[rideforever]

The US might not either, but at least there is a diplomatic relationship with them and a long history of friendship.

Canada has no chance of standing up to Russia. The only way to stand against them is get US on our side, and for that we'd have to give up a lion's share of resources.

We already give up our resources to them. Well, technically we make contracts saying they have to pay for them, then they don't pay the amount in the contract and our pansy govt lets it go. I'm pretty sure they owed us a bunch of money for lumber stuff and we let it go calling it a donation for Katrina damage. Hell we even let them put law enforcement offices on our soil.

[Captain Awesome]

Does the fact that our territory is close mean it's partially ours?

That's a big question mark. Russia is very close to North Pole as a well. So a lot of European nations. And US. If Canada things that North Pole is theirs, they're dreaming.

[rideforever]

Does the fact that our territory is close mean it's partially ours?

That's a big question mark. Russia is very close to North Pole as a well. So a lot of European nations. And US. If Canada things that North Pole is theirs, they're dreaming.

I previously thought it should be split up fairly by all countries closest to it, solely based on geography. But now I think China raises a good point. But, they'll be ignored just like us.

[averagejoe]

I thought CA that you were an admirer of all things Russian??

The US might not either, but at least there is a diplomatic relationship with them and a long history of friendship.

Canada has no chance of standing up to Russia. The only way to stand against them is get US on our side, and for that we'd have to give up a lion's share of resources.

[Captain Awesome]

I thought CA that you were an admirer of all things Russian??

Well, let's be real here. Russia's Army and Navy are in the toilet now. Sure they'll beat Canadians no problem but they sure can't take on US.

[tsu]

Case in point the cf-18's may be 30 years old but the tu-95's are nearly 60 years old.