Canadian taxpayer federation

[dubear]

did anyone else read the story published today about these so-called "taxpayers-rights" folks?

Do not ditch the HST and reinstate the PST, but rather look at lowering the HST slightly. Are you kidding me? This group has an advertised (unconfirmed) member ship of 70,000 across canada and with this paltry 1.5 % of the population (likely all in ontario or quebec), they apparently speak about what "the taxpayers" want? Good, god, taxes in BC were bad enough before, now the # 2 business in BC (after natural resources) is being taxed at historical highs!!

I of course speak of tourism. From restaurants to the zoos, public attractions to anything at all related to "fun" and "recreation", we now pay 7% more for it. Yup, if you enjoyed it, you pay (more) for it.

thoughts?

[Corneliousrooster]

At this point (being the HST is already instated) i think it would make a lot more sense to lower the HST than revert back to the old way......why do you think it would be more beneficial to revert back? (From what i am reading into your statements it sounds like you would prefer to have more services tax exempt which is not the same as reverting the entire system back and reinstating what the pst previously did or did not apply to)

In my opinion, they should leave things as is (reduce the tax and i won't complain) but offer more non refundable tax credits to those who do still want to enjoy "fun" as incentive to keep the economy rolling but still netting the tax from foreign users of our "fun".

Reverting back to the pst system just isn't going to happen so i think the CTF is just trying to look for better ways to make the imposed system more harmonious to the tax payer ......

[Rwede]

The CTF recognizes the clear advantages to everyone of the HST, including consumers who benefit from not paying tax on tax as they did under the old PST, lower production costs with the HST being passed on to consumers, and the advantages of increased employment and investment in BC as it relates to all taxpayers. Consumer confidence is soaring in BC (2nd in Canada) even with the HST - what does that tell you?

Unfortunately, people like the OP who have been snowed by the likes of Vander Scalm can't see past the extra 42¢ on their Big Mac meal combo to understand the big picture.

[dubear]

Interesting thoughts indeed. Unfortunately, as a restaurant owner I have yet to see any so called "decreases" in supplies. My supplies are food related which did not have PST (ie, NO tax), and those components that had GST, now have HST. As a result of "value added tax" my quarterly G/HST remittance to the government is now actually more than 3 times what it used to be, and amazingly... we collect about 3x the HST as we did the GST. Go figure.
Has this impacted sales? Damn rights it has. Will we feel the impact when the tourist season arrives? God I hope not, it has been a tough year already with the recession, the drop in tourism and now with this unexpected and unpredictable tax.

Add to this the increased cost of ingredients (sugar, meats, cheeses, etc).

Lets add in another component...booze. We are not licensed, but we know many restaurants that are. These small business folks now have to tag on 12% to the bill (an incredibly scary amount to anyone with a normal salary), but now these restaurants are facing incredible cuts in alcohol sales due to the new rules for minimum levels for drunk driving. Now... don;t get me wrong, I am not in favour of ANYONE driving drunk, but put on the back of the HST, I have to consider, is this a personal vendetta against restaurants (only kidding, seriously)?
It has been a tough couple of years for tourism, restaurants and anyone involved in the industry. I only have to look at the stack of resumes that come through my office and the number of people who used to work in restaurants and are now out of work and more or less out of luck.

HST. good for the consumer? good for small businesses? Where are these so called savings? It's been over 6 months, I am still waiting.

[Rwede]

Interesting thoughts indeed. Unfortunately, as a restaurant owner I have yet to see any so called "decreases" in supplies. My supplies are food related which did not have PST (ie, NO tax), and those components that had GST, now have HST. As a result of "value added tax" my quarterly G/HST remittance to the government is now actually more than 3 times what it used to be, and amazingly... we collect about 3x the HST as we did the GST. Go figure.
Has this impacted sales? Damn rights it has. Will we feel the impact when the tourist season arrives? God I hope not, it has been a tough year already with the recession, the drop in tourism and now with this unexpected and unpredictable tax.

Add to this the increased cost of ingredients (sugar, meats, cheeses, etc).

Lets add in another component...booze. We are not licensed, but we know many restaurants that are. These small business folks now have to tag on 12% to the bill (an incredibly scary amount to anyone with a normal salary), but now these restaurants are facing incredible cuts in alcohol sales due to the new rules for minimum levels for drunk driving. Now... don;t get me wrong, I am not in favour of ANYONE driving drunk, but put on the back of the HST, I have to consider, is this a personal vendetta against restaurants (only kidding, seriously)?
It has been a tough couple of years for tourism, restaurants and anyone involved in the industry. I only have to look at the stack of resumes that come through my office and the number of people who used to work in restaurants and are now out of work and more or less out of luck.

HST. good for the consumer? good for small businesses? Where are these so called savings? It's been over 6 months, I am still waiting.

Well, you've damned yourself in the first item I bolded above. You state that you're collecting more than 3 times as much HST as you did GST for your quarterly remittances. That indicates a LARGE increase in your sales volume now that the HST is in.

How, you ask? Well, if your sales were flat, you would be remitting 12/5 times more, or 2.4 times as much HST as you did GST. You indicate that you're collecting over 3 times as much tax now, so your sales volume has increased sharply. The restaurant association has been whining about the effect that HST will have in dampening sales, however you've just admitted that you've had at least a ((3 - 2.4)/2.4) = 25% increase in your sales since the HST was introduced.

On your second point, the taxes on booze have actually decreased, as the 10% PST that was on booze plus the 5% GST was a total of 15%, whereas customers are now only paying 12% HST on liquor sales. I guess you think business was better when you charged 15% on booze compared to the 12% that is charged now?

Thanks for posting your misconceptions of the HST and proving to us all that you have no idea about how it works. I'd suggest that you hire a professional accountant to analyze your business for you and give you some advice, as it's quite obvious that if you continue to hold these misconceptions about your business, you're headed for failure.

[dubear]

Thank you for your kind words Richard, much appreciated. If I am to be damned, I doubt it will be because of one persons opinion on a public forum.

Maybe I should have clarified...I did not actually say that OUR sales had decreased. Sales are actually on target for our forecasts, but our forecasts were for less growth than is typical for our business, We expected a slower growth rate due to the lingering recession woes and the introduction of the HST. My point was that we have not seen any reductions in our costs whatsoever. So if consumers are expecting to see prices reduced due to "savings" that businesses are experiencing, they should be aware that these savings may exist for solely retail based businesses, but are non-existent ( or extremely minimal) for food-based and most hospitaility based businesses.
As a business owner I expect costs to go up and we raise prices once per year accordingly, but we can only increase by so much, and with the forced 12% increase to our customers on all restaurant food, our increases this year are quite slim. Therefore we count on increasing sales/volumes in order to survive.

As for my points on alcohol, again I did not mention any tax savings, not sure how you read that in. My point was a compilation of stresses many restaurants are facing. You must have noticed by now the number of restaurants and pubs offering shuttle service or even taxi vouchers, these are not being offered out of the kindness of their hearts; these are efforts to save their livelihood and are becoming an ADDITIONAL cost to these businesses. This is just another factor contributing to an already dismal two years for most restaurants.

Anywho, all bickering and personal comments aside, my concern is still with a rather small interest group getting headlines that state that the taxpayers of Canada want to keep the HST. We were a sign up station for the anti-HST campaign and the response to the possibility of getting rid of the HST was quite overwhelming, which I am sure anyone who has read a newspaper, watched TV or paid any general attention to the publics opinions can attest to.

[Rwede]

As a business owner I expect costs to go up and we raise prices once per year accordingly, but we can only increase by so much, and with the forced 12% increase to our customers on all restaurant food, our increases this year are quite slim. Therefore we count on increasing sales/volumes in order to survive.

So, you're telling us that customers are paying 12% more for a restaurant meal? How do you get that? They paid 5% GST on a meal before, now they are paying 12% HST. By my math, that's 7% more, not 12% more.

You really aren't helping your case by distorting the facts. You're looking for sympathy by spouting the same lies that Vander Scalm and Delaney have been feeding the public. Now, we see a large shift in acceptance of the HST because the lies that they and your association have been spreading in an attempt to fuel the anti-HST fire are being replaced by fact, as people are learning for themselves that the anti-HST forces have been BSing.

Again, if you really believe what you're posting, you need a professional accountant to help you get a true grasp of your costs and revenues, so that you can make prudent business decisions. If you're really this misinformed about how the HST is affecting your business, you're headed for the crapper because you'll make bad decisions.

However, if you're just spewing the lies of Vander Scalm, and attempting to garner public sympathy with them, you're losing any support you previously had as the public's opinion is changing dramatically on the issue.

I for one have been making decisions based on the legislation as it applies to our business rather than the misinformation campaigns of anti-HST proponents (you're possibly an anti-HST proponent yourself, based on your posts). I'd suggest that you take my advice seriously, because failing to do so is going to be very costly to you and your business.

[Rwede]

Maybe I should have clarified...I did not actually say that OUR sales had decreased. Sales are actually on target for our forecasts, but our forecasts were for less growth than is typical for our business, We expected a slower growth rate due to the lingering recession woes and the introduction of the HST.

But you said:

As a result of "value added tax" my quarterly G/HST remittance to the government is now actually more than 3 times what it used to be, and amazingly... we collect about 3x the HST as we did the GST. Go figure.
Has this impacted sales? Damn rights it has. Will we feel the impact when the tourist season arrives? God I hope not, it has been a tough year already with the recession, the drop in tourism and now with this unexpected and unpredictable tax.

Re-reading and seeing that you were indeed an anti-HST sign up station just proves that you're still counting on misinformed people to support your cause.

It's quite pitiful that you're still campaigning on this. Some people were easily fooled when the tax first came out. Now, the number of people that are saying that they originally signed the petition, but now support the HST as sound fiscal policy, is staggering.

You better try a different angle. Lying to people just isn't working anymore. The fact that you've illustrated a 25% increase in your revenues based on your HST remittance levels gets you no support from anyone who stops to think your accusations through.

How many people will support your claim that your sales are being killed off by the HST when you tell them you wanted more than 25% growth in 7 months in your business? Very few.

[Al Czervic]

It was interesting to see the restaurant owner on the news last evening who had previously campaigned against the HST has now come out fully in favor of the HST as he stated it saves him $ 4,000 a year over the PST. What I find more interesting about some restaurant owners is that they believe somehow they should be exempt from charging a provincial portion of taxes when most other business owners have ALWAYS had to charge a provincial portion of taxes (i.e. PST) I don’t have much time for the attitude that thinks they should for some special reason be exempt and treated differently than other business owners. Be glad you had a free ride for as long as you did.

[Gone_Fishin]

http://www.globaltvbc.com/video/index.h ... Q0t4O8EJGO

Here's a link to the news story Al is referring to.

[Al Czervic]

Thx for posting that. It really puts the lies from VanderZalm, Delaney and FIGHT HST into perspective.

[dubear]

Thanks for the correction... yes we did charge GST of 5% before the new tax, now it is 12%. I stand corrected. It is still costing more for everyone, which is my point, not the specific numbers. I have a book keeper to deal with that.

As for saving 4000.00 on PST in a restaurant, the only PST items we sell are a few novelties, and it used to be about 100-200 dollars a month in PST to be submitted. Those items have not changed, now it is PST and GST combined, so we might save 1000 or 1200 dollars a year. Yippee. I am paying more than that on the increased prices on sugar and coffee, etc...

I guess if we sold a lot more of these items it could be "savings" of 4000 or more. Again savings is a literal term, I pay it, I advertise, price and shelf the items and I get the tax portion back. I don't base my prices on the cost with tax, just the cost of the item before tax.

As for a growth of 25%, yes I hope we grow 15 to 25%. I am a businessman plain and simple, we grow, we prosper, as best we can. My employees also prosper and have gainful employment. I am not looking for sympathy or congrats, that was never my point. Shutting down my business, as I have seen many close in the okanagan, is no good for anyone. Everyone has to make a living and trust me as a small business owner I am not rich, just trying to make my way as well as I can.

As far as still campaigning... I never stopped. Yes, I am anti-HST, but not anti tax, I recognize how fortunate we are to have the beautiful country we live in and the services that many countries do not have. I have never believed that food should be taxed, even as far back as the beloved GST. There are three basic necessities in life; Food, shelter and air. We are taxed to the hilt on two, I guess air is next. If you are good with that, so be it. I am not.

[Rwede]

Dubear, you used to pay PST on your display shelves, your menus and brochures, your phone bill, your electricity, your plates and cutlery, your ovens, your chairs and furnishings, your office supplies, etc. Now you, as a business owner, pay no PST on those items, and you get 100% of the HST you paid right back into your pocket with the HST input tax credits.

You're saving 7% on all those parts of your business. That's the type of savings you can realize on your bottom line, or pass on to your customers with lower prices, or employees with wage incentives and/or hirings.

You're trying to draw some parallel to higher sugar and coffee prices to HST, but the reality is that commodity pricing on those items in the world market is what is affecting their pricing, not the HST. I'd wager to say that the increases in those items would be even higher if we didn't have the HST now, as BC distributors of those commodities can pass on their own HST savings to you to mitigate world pricing fluctuations.

You're confused about the PST you used to charge customers on novelties and the PST you are personally saving on the list of things I gave above. Again, although it's nice that you have a bookkeeper, you really need a professional accountant to explain these things to you, as it's obvious your bookkeeper isn't able to do it (in fact, if the bookkeeper is the only one aware of the "specific numbers", you're operating blindly).

Get some professional accounting advice - I believe you're blindly following Vander Scalm and are grossly misinformed about your business, and it's going to hurt your profitability big time if you continue behind that pied piper.

[Al Czervic]

Dubear, you used to pay PST on your display shelves, your menus and brochures, your phone bill, your electricity, your plates and cutlery, your ovens, your chairs and furnishings, your office supplies, etc. Now you, as a business owner, pay no PST on those items, and you get 100% of the HST you paid right back into your pocket with the HST input tax credits.

You're saving 7% on all those parts of your business. That's the type of savings you can realize on your bottom line, or pass on to your customers with lower prices, or employees with wage incentives and/or hirings.

You're trying to draw some parallel to higher sugar and coffee prices to HST, but the reality is that commodity pricing on those items in the world market is what is affecting their pricing, not the HST. I'd wager to say that the increases in those items would be even higher if we didn't have the HST now, as BC distributors of those commodities can pass on their own HST savings to you to mitigate world pricing fluctuations.

You're confused about the PST you used to charge customers on novelties and the PST you are personally saving on the list of things I gave above. Again, although it's nice that you have a bookkeeper, you really need a professional accountant to explain these things to you, as it's obvious your bookkeeper isn't able to do it (in fact, if the bookkeeper is the only one aware of the "specific numbers", you're operating blindly).

Get some professional accounting advice - I believe you're blindly following Vander Scalm and are grossly misinformed about your business, and it's going to hurt your profitability big time if you continue behind that pied piper.

Exactly. At least the Global news story confirmed that some other rest. operators are starting to figure it out.

[SpaceAddict]

The myth of job creating and better economy. Don't know if you have noticed but I sure did. People that I know in the restaurant industry have been laid off. They got the double whammy. First the HST then the booze law. All the people that I knew that worked in that industry here locally have been let go. Sure there is still people there but there all new hires. Anyone with a year or two or even more has been shown the door.

It's basically lies lies and damn lies. Don't take my word for it ask around yourself. Business is down, made it worse not better. Get the facts strait. I asked one that I knew really well and was told they where instructed to not say a damn word to anyone but since I knew them for so long they told me. It's down 50% at least. They got let go about 2 months after that conversation. Worked there ten years.

There is no checks and balances. It's just a bonus and there is no rules that they actually have to show results. It's just a windfall for them and will take 10 years to work threw the economy. TAX breaks for business should be based on performance not handouts.

Get you little brains around this. The economy is made by the consumer but we the consumer seems to be always paying the price to line some big wigs pocket. Must need a new jet or something. If you want to create jobs get yer damn hand out of my pocket. More spending will create what they want faster and better. You can't TAX a economy into prosperity. IT"S A FACT !