The 2011 - 12 Federal Budget

[NAB]

Announced to be brought down March 22nd 2011.

I've received calls to be prepared for an election as a result, and so far I have responded that would be silly and totally up to PM Harper to force one, not the opposition.

What do you see as the issues, and particularly the one's that have a chance of causing the opposition to bring the government down? doe they really have the guts to do it??

And do you really want an election right now??? Are the Iggy Liberals ready to govern from a minority position if we have one??? Are we ready for a Harper Conservative's majority if we have one (which is a very real possibility now IMO) ???

Nab

[Al Czervic]

If I was to apply your logic that you use provincially then sure I would demand an election to “clean house” and who cares if Iggy and the Federal Liberals are not ready to govern or not as the arrogant Harper Government needs to go down for bringing in the HST. After all the HST is horrible and really all Harper’s fault. If Harper had not changed the HST rules and offered up the big bribe we would not have the HST here in B.C. At least that is all what Jack Layton will be saying.

However I am not a hypocrite and I no more would like a Federal election then I would a Provincial election. As taxpayer’s we cannot afford either. And I do not just mean the actual costs of an election as far as the expenses, I mean the bigger costs, the “election” budget that always comes along with elections involves HUGE spending increases trying to be all things to all people and of course there are all of the election related promises that add up as well. More spending, more programs and on it go’s……

So NO, I do not desire a Federal election right now as I believe we cannot afford an election right now, not to mention that elections themselves create economic uncertainty and worse if somehow Iggy and the federal Liberals got elected then I see the potential for even more of our tax dollars being wasted.

Right now what our country most needs is some “tough love” in order to get through these difficult times. Elections are anything but “tough love” they are all about insane promises and crazy spending so I say no to an election.

[Merry]

I don't want to see an election right now either, partly because I think the Tories are doing a reasonable job (notice I said "reasonable" not good) and partly because I agree with Al that we can't afford any of the expensive promises that are bound to be made during an election campaign.

However, much of the reason I feel that way is because up until now the Tories have provided a fairly centrist type of government. If they were to suddenly take a hard swing to the right, I'd feel differently about calling an election.

[NAB]

It appears that the estimates indicate the government will spend ten BILLION $ less this year than last year. About 7 billion of that as a result of the winding down of stimulous spending, and about 3 BILLION (NET reduction) as a result of increases and cuts to various other areas.

So depending on which programs or ministries get increases and how much, it appears that somewhere north of three Billion will be trimmed from others. That doesn't sound like anything particularly severe at this point, but I haven't heard any rumours of further tax cuts except the one built in for businesses as a result of prior long term budget plans that the Liberals supported at the time. That's one of the things Iggy has been screaming about, seemingly suggesting that the preplanned reductions not take place this year due to the struggling economic recovery and stiff headwinds now. I think I am sorta on side with him with that one.

Nab

[NAB]

Well, the pollsters are fishing for voting intentions should the "Harper Government" fall over the budget. I suspect it is probably the Harper Government itself polling to get last minute numbers to ensure they are well into majority territory should the plug get pulled. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the numbers show they are, and as a result Harper pulls a poison pill out to bait the opposition into triggering an election by voting down the budget, even if it is a good one otherwise.

We are going to have a busy year campaigning and voting between federal and provincial activities it seems. But it's all good if it brings about at least four years of threat of election free peace and quiet on the political front under a majority Conservative ("Harper") government.

Nab

[acidrain]

I can't say I've followed politics in the past year so I can't comment on the budget or any of the other bills that have gone through the legislature. I haven't seen the polls but I'd be surprised if an election spelled a huge victory for any given party. I think another election is more wasted money that we do not have. I am quite irritated by the fact that these politicians feel they have the right to blow our money like a teenager at a shopping mall. This would be a different story if each election took a bite out of their own salary.

The biggest issue in BC right now is jobs, jobs, jobs. Permanent full time good paying jobs. The unemployment rate in the Okanagan region is listed at 9.5% (according to Stats Canada). That is not counting the underemployed (p/t, casual) or people who have stopped looking. The HST has certainly not helped.

If we do go into an election I have to say for the first time I have no idea who I'd vote for. No idea. I think all the political parties are a joke and I have zero confidence in all of them. I think politicians are removed from the real world. The way they grandstand and carry on during question period is a national embarrasment. I used to be involved at a grassroots level. But the past few years I have given up on our political process for the most part.

To be frank, I'd rather just have an equal amount appointed from each party and end all elections. Cull the Government and get rid of the dead weight. Force these idiots to come up with solutions that benefit the country not themselves or their party. It doesn't seem to matter who we vote in they all promise the world and deliver little. Politicians will sell their souls to get elected. I saw an article in MacLeans about how they seldomly sit in the house and how few bills get proposed. Proroguing has become a normality now. When the cameras are off hardly any show up. What's the point to have a democracy if the politicians don't even believe in it? I hate the thought of a majority government where scandals start all over again because of limited checks and balances. I never thought I'd turn this negative toward politics but I have zero enthusiasm toward it now.

Politicians are completely out of touch with reality and until our political system is radically reformed voter enthusiasm will remain very low.

[NAB]

It's now looking like the Harper government may not even survive long enough to bring down a budget. We (and our politico's) sure have a way of shooting Canada in our collective (there's that word again) foot just at a point when things start to show some promise. Fill ur boots (and open your financial war chests and wallets) lefties, let's git er done sooner rather than later so the Conservatives can get on with REALLY running the country instead of constantly pandering to your petty whining any more.

By the way acid... good to see you back in the thick of things. I hope all is well with you.

Nab

[Al Czervic]

I was initially fairly doubtful we would see an election….however today’s double/double rulings from House Speaker Peter Milliken have me thinking an election is now more like 50/50. It is highly doubtful the Liberals are going to get a better issue then this one to use as an excuse to take to the polls over.


Not to mention the last thing the Liberals need is another “Harper Government” not an election (election) budget that will invariable offer up the usual vote for us goodies. I have no doubt that the Conservatives throw certain items into those budgets just so they can say “ The Liberals will deprive Canadians of XYZ by defeating this budget” not unlike they did with the home reno, tax credit a few years back. It was actually pretty smart politics by the “Harper” Government.

I would not be surprised if the Conservatives started too leak a few “goodies” from their budget between now and budget day. What better way to grab some positive headlines and if they have a juiciest enough list of goodies no doubt some Canadians will figure out that a budget with some policy content and direction is far more important then Liberal pouting over not getting get their way in the house. All of this will be in spite of the CBC’s efforts to blow this issue up like Hiroshima.

Anyone doubt this double whammy will be a CBC Lead News Story on the late night news ?

[acidrain]

It's good to be a part of these discussions and see you on here too Nabs.

It feels like we are going to the polls every so often federally. The only party that I can see any possibility of gaining anything might be the Conservatives. They are the only party to my knowledge that has deep enough pockets to be able to afford to run a decent campaign.

The left are so fractured I just shake my head every time they attempt to do something constructive. The whole political scene has turned into the Conservatives vs. insert politcal party here. There is no unification whatsoever by the BQ, NDP, Greens and Liberals. I am very surprised as I thought nobody would unify the left more so than Stephen Harper. The left appear even more fractured than before Stephen Harper took power.

Layton and Ignattief have been weak as leaders and have never gotten a huge following with the public. Unfortunately not many people know a lot about May and the inner fighting of the Green Party has not helped their cause. The only leader on the left that has any charisma and leadership is Duceppe. Unfortunately his platform is to serve the needs of Quebecers and nobody else. In many ways it is a shame as I find him to be a formidable politician.

I say the Conservatives "may" gain something as there is a strong possibility they may not be able to secure more ridings. History has shown time and time again that when the economy is struggling North Americans (both Americans and Canadians) tend to move toward the middle. While Harper has worked with other parties to govern more to the centre than he'd like to admit, his ideals and that of the Conservative Party are not centrist.

It's certainly not going to be cakewalk for Harper to walk into an election with a rising deficit, an ongoing war in Afghanistan, continual problems south of the border and a questionable economy to get a majority government. It would be interesting to consider which ridings the Conservatives feel are weak enough to take from the opposing parties. Polls are difficult to read considering it is ridings that determine the next Government.

[Al Czervic]

I think you hit the nail on the head as far as the lack of unity in the left. Bottom line is that the Federal Liberal need a real leader. A series of weak leaders have led them to where they are today. The last strong leader they had was of course Chrétien, but naturally they had to flush him and things have gone progressively downhill from there.

I get the sense that the Liberals recognize that Iggy is more or less a waste of time as well. Sadly it seems there is the Parliamentary tradition of getting rid of your leader through a failed election effort instead of simply doing things the easy way. I have no doubt that another election with the Federal Liberals making no gains will see the ouster of Iggy and if we are really lucky the NDP will send Layton packing as well.

[acidrain]

There were a lot of hopes for Iggy in the beggining. But he has not made any inroads and the Conservatives have done a good job painting him as an American elitest.

The left are very fractured right now. I don't know what is going on behind the scenes but all the fighting between parties (NDP/Liberal, Green/NDP, etc) has been detrimental. The rise of the Green party has been an eyesore for both the NDP and the Libs that have seen a few ridings go Conservative because of vote splitting. The left really need to take a hard look on whether they want to be taken seriously in the next 5 years.

As much as I complained about Chretien I had a certain amount of respect for him as PM.There are reasons why he won majority governments. Another obstacle for the Liberals has been Quebec. The Liberals once had a stronghold there and the Bloc has made a comeback. It's quite interesting considering separatism is at it's lowest level in years. However, the Quebec people have come to recognize that even just "playing with the idea" acts in their own best interest. It is difficult for any federal party to make inroads there because the people know they have a good thing going.

The Liberals have also had a lot of inner fighting trying to figure out whether to be a centrist or left of centre party. They have done a poor job separating themselves from the BQ and Greens. I firmly agree with you Al that a strong leader is needed for the Libs. There is a serious problem when Justin Trudeau is constantly referred to as their rockstar/backup leader. I think he's one of the most overrated politicians. I'll save that rant for another thread.

I liked Sheila Copps and felt she would've been a great leader for the Libs. It was awful what the party did to her and subsequently to Belinda Stronach. Copps is one of the most influential women in Canadian politics that got screwed by her own party. I still don't think the Libs realize how much damage the leadership convention in 2003 caused. Stronach got thrown to the wolves in my opinion with the whole MacKay affair. They offered very little to keep her around. If the Liberals want women to identify with their party they need to do more to show they believe in equality. That is my feminist rant for the day.

[NAB]

The really sad thing about this whole affair is that the antics of the Liberal opposition have now produced a situation that severely detracts from work on finalizing the budget, and could in fact result in the government falling before a budget is even introduced. Playing such dangerous political games is (IMO) definitely NOt serving the best (economic) interests of Canada, and IggyOtic and his pals better recognize they are going to be held responsible for that. But since when has Iggy or JackOLayton demonstrated they even give a hoot about our economy? And if recent Question periods are a typical example, I'm getting a bit worried about Iggy. He's going to bust a blood vessel at this rate with all his irrelevant huffing and puffing.

Nab

[c2c]

You should be huffing and puffing too about the Harper Government lying to Canadians about the real cost of their tough on crime agenda.

Now, the parliamentary budget officer is estimating that the real costs of the sole-sourced contract for the F35s will soar to $29 billion (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2 ... erjet.html) .

Let’s talk about the economy, our tax dollars and our increasing debt

[Bagotricks]

You should be huffing and puffing too about the Harper Government lying to Canadians about the real cost of their tough on crime agenda.

Now, the parliamentary budget officer is estimating that the real costs of the sole-sourced contract for the F35s will soar to $29 billion (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2 ... erjet.html) .

Let’s talk about the economy, our tax dollars and our increasing debt

Government was slammed yesterday. House ruled the government broke parliamentary rules by not telling Canadians, or the opposition - how much it was going to cost to put all those people in jail for growing 6 pot plants and the mandatory minimum sentencing structure - while crime rates are falling.

Parliamentary budget officer Kevin Page says "Hey - those new planes are not going to cost 16-18 Billion, its more like 29 Billion" - Double !

Now we have the fear mongering - if we dont buy them - those exact planes - Peter MacKay says cancelling the deal would "endanger the lives of Canadian pilots" and "endanger the sovereignty of this country."

So thumb your nose at election laws concerning funding - break the law - no biggie - its a "accounting issue". Thumb your nose at parliamentary rules and try to pass laws without even telling Canadians how much its going to cost ( while all data shows that no law is required/crime is falling/US style prisons dont work ect ect ), get caught - no biggie "so what" is the attitude. Try to buy Stealth Fighter-Bombers for the arctic ( when military planes will be unmanned drones in 5-7 years ) and say its going to cost "X" but really its going to be "X" doubled.

Classic. So much for a accountable and transparent Government of Canada Harper Government

[The Green Barbarian]

The really sad thing about this whole affair is that the antics of the Liberal opposition have now produced a situation that severely detracts from work on finalizing the budget, and could in fact result in the government falling before a budget is even introduced. Playing such dangerous political games is (IMO) definitely NOt serving the best (economic) interests of Canada, and IggyOtic and his pals better recognize they are going to be held responsible for that. But since when has Iggy or JackOLayton demonstrated they even give a hoot about our economy? And if recent Question periods are a typical example, I'm getting a bit worried about Iggy. He's going to bust a blood vessel at this rate with all his irrelevant huffing and puffing.

Nab

it's true Nab, much like here in BC - there's not much for alternatives at the ballot box if we have to go to a Federal election. I had high hopes for Iggy but it appears he's not the leader he could have been, if he had just stayed out of the stupid games that Jack O Layton the grinning idiot loves to play.